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[AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

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Starx
Posts: 279

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#31 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:53 pm

Arbich wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:17 am
Give extra disrupt strikethrough for every tranquility point, to make the silence more reliable.

Walk between worlds is fine. actually one of the strong AM tools.

Problem with the actual mechanic is, that it is quite useful with Echo of Vaul, has some use as dps AM and is apart from that ignored.

A button to change tranq stacks to force stacks (without global cooldown) sounds good. But will also buff dps AM (which is fine as it is).
DPS AM is probably in the worst spot of any DPS in terms of organized play, down there with DPS Shaman. Giving an ability to change tranq stacks would be a buff but not the one DPS AM/Sham need to actually be wanted and all it would do is exacerbate the negative feelings people have about the class because it would be easier for them to fry rando pugs in RvR/SC's w/ the dmg buff being available to them throughout a fight.

Time for a long autistic rant :pensive:

I tried to make DPS AM work way back when in 6 mans before the class was even touched from live balance, back when 6 man guilds even entertained the idea of running 3-2-1 groups. But really i relied on SM+AM spirit debuff stacking and there just wasn't enough dmg or off healing to really justify it. And now come back to the class and farm the entire DPS Sov set on it, as DPS just to see how awful it is in 24v24. I did somewhat manage to put up respectable dps/healing numbers when I got 6pc for a 0-13-13 spec, and never got told to stop playing DPS AM or to kill myself after city.

But the class has major issues, the biggest being how long it takes to ramp up damage. What makes them absolute nightmares for pug players in RvR/SCs is what makes them really clunky in organized play. You need to be able to switch targets fast and be applying full pressure ASAP, but that's just not possible on DPS AM/Sham you have a significant ramp time for damage (not to mention that ramp can be cleansed lol). Some of that can be alleviated by playing with ppl in voice chat, but **** forget about it with pugs (I have nightmares from some solo que 6v6 assisting ppl). The absolute beating the channel tactic took from nerf is a pretty big contributor to this, ruining the uptime of our best direct damage skill... and then for no real reason just HAHA slapping on a healdebuff. When the tactic used to literally have no drawback and actually remove the CD...

In terms of AoE for city... its inexcusably bad until you have 6 pieces of sov... then its still worse than say magus/engineer, as the healing you gain from lifetap isn't really making up for the fact you are struggling to out dps/heal **** sword masters lol, and you will almost never have the right stacks to cast it on the move with reduced cast time like heal AM does. While also not really bringing a whole lot, since you cant even get puddle, have no usefull buffs... lDK

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Fey
Posts: 499

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#32 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:12 am

You will never have a warm fuzzy place in a city WB as dps AM. Just jettison that from your RoR brain. There's just no way to make that happen without cucking actual dps classes/specs that also struggle in city scens. Still you have aoe debuffs, puddle, aoe RANGED KB, and aoe AP drain. Pick the most choppiest dps and hinder the city Mdps train. That would be very effective. As an AM dps you're a debuffer, embrace the warp.

I've played AM more than any class if we include live. It's incredibly entertaining to play. As a healer it feels lacking because WP is like whatever face-roll keyboard for heals, and RP flash heal is so strong. With the kit of tactics available to RP it synergizes perfectly with WP. So AMs need a tight game to compete, but that is nothing special of niche classes. It's game flavor. Game flavor good.

As a dps they need nothing special. The fact that their damage is backloaded means nothing. It syncs perfectly well with front-load dps. Again your a debuffer. Assist your main dps and profit.

Reducing the mechanic to 3 points instead of 5 is a good start. What would be really spicy is a unique effect at zero mechanic. You would get a front-loaded buff on the initial encounter. Then you're loading up hots and heals on everyone. Then a ways into the fight you see an opportunity for to burst a target. You cast 2 offensive spells to get back to that zero mechanic buff for a the same effect, only back loaded.

Something like: if you are at zero mechanic points your next ability cast will be aoe with a 15 foot radius.

You can immediately into the fight cast your heal debuff as an aoe. It gets cleansed. You can cast your silence immediately as an aoe, and hand out immunity. You can aoe cast big heal, no one is very hurt yet that quickly. There is obvious counter play.

Aoe dots who cares, aoe KB you already have that. Maybe exclude the AP drain from this mechanic effect. Just spit balling. I loves me some AM theory crafting. Cheers.
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Arbich
Posts: 632

Re: [AM] Walk Between Worlds - discuss

Post#33 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 10:58 am

Starx wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:53 pm
Arbich wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:17 am
Give extra disrupt strikethrough for every tranquility point, to make the silence more reliable.

Walk between worlds is fine. actually one of the strong AM tools.

Problem with the actual mechanic is, that it is quite useful with Echo of Vaul, has some use as dps AM and is apart from that ignored.

A button to change tranq stacks to force stacks (without global cooldown) sounds good. But will also buff dps AM (which is fine as it is).
DPS AM is probably in the worst spot of any DPS in terms of organized play, down there with DPS Shaman. Giving an ability to change tranq stacks would be a buff but not the one DPS AM/Sham need to actually be wanted and all it would do is exacerbate the negative feelings people have about the class because it would be easier for them to fry rando pugs in RvR/SC's w/ the dmg buff being available to them throughout a fight.

Time for a long autistic rant :pensive:

I tried to make DPS AM work way back when in 6 mans before the class was even touched from live balance, back when 6 man guilds even entertained the idea of running 3-2-1 groups. But really i relied on SM+AM spirit debuff stacking and there just wasn't enough dmg or off healing to really justify it. And now come back to the class and farm the entire DPS Sov set on it, as DPS just to see how awful it is in 24v24. I did somewhat manage to put up respectable dps/healing numbers when I got 6pc for a 0-13-13 spec, and never got told to stop playing DPS AM or to kill myself after city.

But the class has major issues, the biggest being how long it takes to ramp up damage. What makes them absolute nightmares for pug players in RvR/SCs is what makes them really clunky in organized play. You need to be able to switch targets fast and be applying full pressure ASAP, but that's just not possible on DPS AM/Sham you have a significant ramp time for damage (not to mention that ramp can be cleansed lol). Some of that can be alleviated by playing with ppl in voice chat, but **** forget about it with pugs (I have nightmares from some solo que 6v6 assisting ppl). The absolute beating the channel tactic took from nerf is a pretty big contributor to this, ruining the uptime of our best direct damage skill... and then for no real reason just HAHA slapping on a healdebuff. When the tactic used to literally have no drawback and actually remove the CD...

In terms of AoE for city... its inexcusably bad until you have 6 pieces of sov... then its still worse than say magus/engineer, as the healing you gain from lifetap isn't really making up for the fact you are struggling to out dps/heal **** sword masters lol, and you will almost never have the right stacks to cast it on the move with reduced cast time like heal AM does. While also not really bringing a whole lot, since you cant even get puddle, have no usefull buffs... lDK
I think you are a bit too negative.
3-2-1 groups are harder now duo to mobility improvements for different classes (sprint for WE, pounce for mSH, get to the choppa and for a long time Mara pull). 3-2-1 groups were not great before these changes and got further nerfed with them. It's not a dps AM problem specifically.

In city dps AM is arguably the worst dps, yes. But while range SW might be slightly better in theory, it doesn't matter cause there are far better other picks. Every range dps except for BW is undesired in city (you can take 1 Engi..).
AM has the advantage to go heal for city, which works fine. You need invader set (which is a good heal set) anyway to equip sov.

In scenarios dps AM is probably the best order range dps or maybe second after BW (depends on who you face as opposition).

So your statement is not wrong in general, you exaggerate the problems of dps AM.
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

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