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From the first fight we know it's over.

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#91 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:33 pm

blasras wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:23 pm
Wam wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:53 pm TL:DR people just like to complain
I don't think that's fair friend, the game allows you to progress solo up that point, not everyone wants to commit to a group of people and meet their expectations, they just want to play a game online and have fun without any ties attached. I'm not saying you're supposed to reward people for being incompetent/unprepared or laid back, but they're at least a bit entitled to express their feelings. If the game wasn't clear from the begining about progression being dependant on groups at some point, it's expected to meet frustration when you no longer can enjoy the game's progression the way you been doing it for hundreds of hours already.

There's no easy solution, and all mmos have some way to gate end game rewards to keep their population active (with very few exceptions where the progression is just cosmetic). Personally I've already experienced a similar situation in plenty of mmos, and when I no longer enjoy the content I move on and play something else, because I know it will remain the same wether I like it or not. Thankfully this is a project where devs have been open to suggestions, and we actually have the posibility to make a difference for the better of this already small community, as long as they land within a realistic approach and they won't harm their original vision of the experience.

The items are just the carrot on a stick, giving away all the gear for free to pugs won't solve anything long term, and letting organized WB's faceroll unorganized pugs won't make them keep playing longer after they're bored of getting SoV on all their alts. The objective is to actually have fun engagements where both sides enjoy playing and the rewards are meaningful enough to have a competitive scene, not just login for some stupid medal at random intervals for 3 months and then quit or do it all over again. But sadly we have to work with what we have, it might not be possible to keep everyone satisfied, but we can hear/read each other and try to see how much can be done instead of ignoring them and assuming "people just like to complain".
you cannot solo beastlord/redeye/sentinel/bloodlord/onslaught

soloing ruin would of took a long time under old loot rules and rng and again some classes would struggle.

soloing sc's will take along time unless you farm a favourable emblem sc hard thunder valley on rotation

soloing in rvr will most likely get you white bag and lack of contribution... (ofc you can get more but comparatively speaking its alot harder)

Majority of people who solo, probably join open warbands at some point, just need a little more than that for end game... its not asking alot, you are even given the choice to suit yourself.

Dev's have listened to feedback and improved the system with medals in bags from orvr, so that is a slight improvement on how it was.

For a free to play by volunteers they do pretty good or we wouldn't be here. I know everyone is passionate and have different ideas and expectations, they try to get middle ground and thats where we are... they try to avoid mistakes of live with empty free instances.

Id Personally prefer a hard PVE encounter in city over pug stomps or than a empty instance (for people who dont get pops) But i know how much work that would require and how selfish, people would be HURR DERR YOU FIGHT AVOIDER FOR EZ GAINS... you can never please everyone, Dev's have poisoned chalice and some people will never be happy regardless. I know i won't agree with all their decisions or direction but they have provided a good platform for many years of service forming multiple memories and friendships. So i appreciate that, make some suggestions sometimes if its required or just informed feedback, if its taken on board or not is not up to me, you adapt to system and do what you must. Like the campaign right now its ok, but I miss the campaign of a few years ago when BO's mattered more and felt important (was less zerg to 2 star and zerg keep) was more fight over map for bo's and wrestle for control, but that is personal preference.

If people could farm full fresh set of sov in 2 weeks would people be satisfied? would they still complain? would they stop playing now there is nothing left to gain? I think the dev's wanted it to be about the journey and length of journey is part of that to prevent rushing (after first week). Majority of cities will happen off peak because of less defenders, sometimes it favour NA zones, sometimes it might be too late for them.
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SuperStar
Posts: 403

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#92 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 pm

It's not about solo or groupt up.

It's about full guild almost full sov and casual weekend players with a non meta char.

Sadly many guild premade wanna farm this weak guyz, lucky there are some good premade guyz who wanna find challenge and not pug farm. They are less imo.

The point is not about make pug city coz they lazy to group up. The point is very boring when the enemy doesn't even have a lil chance.

This is the endgame (imo ranked sc the endgame)
So it should be fantastic big fights. But now most of you just check the twitch and discord and wait to q to avoid anybody who has chance to beat you. And make only 18 man too to avoid full 24 premade etc.

This is not good imo the system should pair the order and destro in instance after everybody q.

Based on gear guild city mmr. Etc.

For the interesting good fight and not pug farm then afking then pugfarm a lil bit and end.

You know same story if you go sc with full premade aganist pug who hasn't got healer maybe a dps am and a 2handed knight who doesn't guard. You wipe them big clap after they go afk at wc. Very interesting...

Engi sw dps am etc all non meta player deserve city deserve fun and they could have fun if we let them fight aganist eachother. And not aganist guild premade. And premades also can have fun

Maybe a scoreboard should help to not pug farm.

And you guyz can hunt some glory and not pugs

Zxul
Posts: 1395

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#93 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:37 am

Actually read 5 pages of this, can't bother to read 5 more.

As someone who was here from when t1 was max, so very familiar with a server history- the debate is between a premades busy playing fotm best composition wbs, and yes realistically looking to stomp pug for free rewards, and casuals/players which want to play the classes which they like even if those ain't fotm/players which actually have life (because if you have 3 sets of sov/5 alts with sov/whatever else was posted here, considering the time it takes to get those lets face it you don't have time for RL), and which don't like being farmed by premades.

And this will never end- the premades feel that they are entitled for rewards for organizing (realistically, bringing fotm classes and setting up a discord channel- where are those premades organizing to stomp pugs while bringing 8 engies as dps?), the pug feels that they shouldn't be punished for playing the classes which they want to play (at least trying to make a balanced wb wouldn't hurt though).
"Can we play with him, master? He seems so unhappy. Let us help him smile. Please? Or at least let us carve one on his face when he stops screaming."

— Azeila, Alluress of Slaanesh

sogeou
Posts: 412

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#94 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:35 am

SuperStar wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 pm It's not about solo or groupt up.

It's about full guild almost full sov and casual weekend players with a non meta char.

Sadly many guild premade wanna farm this weak guyz, lucky there are some good premade guyz who wanna find challenge and not pug farm. They are less imo.

The point is not about make pug city coz they lazy to group up. The point is very boring when the enemy doesn't even have a lil chance.

This is the endgame (imo ranked sc the endgame)
So it should be fantastic big fights. But now most of you just check the twitch and discord and wait to q to avoid anybody who has chance to beat you. And make only 18 man too to avoid full 24 premade etc.

This is not good imo the system should pair the order and destro in instance after everybody q.

Based on gear guild city mmr. Etc.

For the interesting good fight and not pug farm then afking then pugfarm a lil bit and end.

You know same story if you go sc with full premade aganist pug who hasn't got healer maybe a dps am and a 2handed knight who doesn't guard. You wipe them big clap after they go afk at wc. Very interesting...

Engi sw dps am etc all non meta player deserve city deserve fun and they could have fun if we let them fight aganist eachother. And not aganist guild premade. And premades also can have fun

Maybe a scoreboard should help to not pug farm.

And you guyz can hunt some glory and not pugs

Dude, you are wasting your time. Wam thinks like a Black orc lol. Everything you are saying makes sense. Premade groups of 24 should only fight premade groups unless there are none and then should be broken up into 6 mans and fill other instances.

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Hecksa
Posts: 26

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#95 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:59 am

As a lazy ex-hardcore WAR player who now almost exclusively solo queues for cities, I really don't think anyone should be moaning about the position us puggies are in. This game is about teamwork and group play. If I'm lazy (spoiler, I very much am) and can't be bothered to organize at all for end-game content in a game all about organizing, how do I deserve any rewards? And yet, I get rewarded brilliantly for my lack of effort, to be honest.

Sure, when I waltz into the city solo quite often I'll I run into a guild / well organised pug wb and get crushed. That's ok, I just fight the best I can, die a few times and amazingly I'll *still get rewards*. Imagine running into an endgame PvE dungeon with a pug, wiping repeatedly without killing even the trash mobs, and still making progress towards your next armour set. That's basically what is being given out here - us lazy folk get rewards even when we get 0 kills in the entire city instance.

But I don't always get crushed. My winrate solo queueing city on order is above 50%, and has included some really close and fun fights.

Pugs in the city have it great. When I win, I get great rewards. When I get crushed, it's over quick and I *still* get rewards! Zero effort progress towards gear. How much easier could I want it to be?

Kloaner
Posts: 121

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#96 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:18 am

Spoiler:
SuperStar wrote: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:48 pm Sadly many guild premade wanna farm this weak guyz, lucky there are some good premade guyz who wanna find challenge and not pug farm. They are less imo.

isn't that what all Players want? Easy enemies and fast loot? Maybe a fight where the enemy don't hide in the spawn after the first push because it's boring to wait for stage 1 to end. But no one who goes for City because of the Set wants a close/even fight. Just liars tell such stories.


Allow only complete Warbands to queue for City. People will adapt or leave the Game, Problem solved.
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catholicism198
Posts: 1092

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#97 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:29 am

I was in this mini-game, and it was the easiest 3 royal crests I’ve ever gotten.
Did a little damage, and watched some web-series.

For those that say create your own pug-premade, a pug-made will never compare to a 24-man of people that have played together for months on meta classes.

Destro focuses on min-max/meta classes, while order plays what they enjoy. I’ve seen one ranged Squig herder, four Magi, and three Witch Elves in all the cities I’ve done.
Doesn’t help that Destro has more city friendly classes.

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desizt
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Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#98 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:40 am

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Noslock
Posts: 374

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#99 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:01 am

catholicism198 wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 3:29 am I was in this mini-game, and it was the easiest 3 royal crests I’ve ever gotten.
Did a little damage, and watched some web-series.

For those that say create your own pug-premade, a pug-made will never compare to a 24-man of people that have played together for months on meta classes.

Destro focuses on min-max/meta classes, while order plays what they enjoy. I’ve seen one ranged Squig herder, four Magi, and three Witch Elves in all the cities I’ve done.
Doesn’t help that Destro has more city friendly classes.
Unfortunately there are classes better suited to work in cities and even if u bring classes not that well suited you shouldnt overstack em and the op post is a clear example of that with like 3 or 4 am and 3 engie if i recall right.My alt dps shaman will never see a city specced as a dps cause even specced as healer spots are limited in a proper setup.Do i complain about it?No i dont care ,i will respec and try to do it as healer to be useful to my group.

Destro probably play to win tryin to build proper setup and using proper classes (ofc even on destro you will find strange pug wb with 12 dps 2 tanks dps healers and so on) while you play to partecipate bringin classes not well suited and overstackin em .Why one would plays ranged sh when you can do way better on melee squig.City is a team effort not a single player effort.You spec your char for team play not for solo roaming and you bring a team viable char if you wanna win.If you wanna play for fun suit yourself ,everyone should be free to play the way he wants but dont complain once you are farmed over and over.
Last edited by Noslock on Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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inflamez
Posts: 21

Re: From the first fight we know it's over.

Post#100 » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:00 am

you guys can be happy that in this game you can already obtain the best gear by simply grinding your life away. no gear is gated behind requirements other than grinding (no rating/mmr requirements on sov or invader, only on triumphant gear which only 1% of the playerbase farms anyway). if u win u get the gear faster but if u lose u will still get the same gear eventually

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