From the first fight we know it's over.

[Akalukz]

If you want to pug the end-game content, that's absolutely fine. But complaining about losing vs premades, when cities are the top tier content is silly. This is an MMORPG, a group game, and the meta revolves around 24v24 - which, you guessed it, is perfect for cities.

As a pug, you are still getting participation rewards for ending each round, but don't get frustrated because you're losing vs people who are putting the effort in to get on discord, organise strategies and bring their A game, whilst you sit back, queue up and expect free wins.

This thread appears constantly, after every city, and the bottom line is simple. Nobody is forcing you to queue solo. The game is better with guilds anyway.

Find some people to play with, queue as 24, have more fun, get more rewards.

There is a large amount of your player base that disagrees with you. If you don't see how that is an issue, then that is a dev problem. While I agree that end game content should be "end game" content, the current (and always been) queueing system stacks pugs (solo/duo etc) vs premade. That is the exact reason behind the PUG Scenario, they couldn't / wouldn't / can't figure out how to make it group vs group instead of group vs solo. So they created a pug only scenario.

City sucks, it sucks now and it sucked on LIVE. The game is based on ORvR (for the most part that's the draw) but then for end game content lets make 24v24 scenarios...with a scenario queuer that favors premade groups.

Change the city queue system to 12 man or 6 man only. One or the other. Don't allow solo queue, pick either 12 or 6 man, force some sort of comp, doesn't have to be 2/2/2 but has to be at least 1/1/1 with whatever else per group.

[zumos2]

Just imagine playing a PvE MMORPG with the end game content being 20 man raids. Now imagine complaining that you cannot obtain the best gear without joining a premade raid group to do said content. Sounds kind of ridiculous right?

Now imagine playing a PvP MMORPG with the end game being Warband vs Warband PvP and then complaining about having to join an organised warband to obtain the best gear. Again kind of ridiculous.

The worst part is that people are complaining, even though with 0 effort they are still getting free rewards in city for losing. Yet they complain to the devs for even more free rewards. The game is already made extremely solo friendly with how you obtain bags from zone locks these days.

I also like how some people are psychics looking into my mind and they tell me that I rather do some pug stomping than face another premade. I can tell you that many people of these premades rather face other premades than just stomp some pugs in city.

[wonshot]

Change the city queue system to 12 man or 6 man only. One or the other. Don't allow solo queue, pick either 12 or 6 man, force some sort of comp, doesn't have to be 2/2/2 but has to be at least 1/1/1 with whatever else per group.

Server pop might be too small for too many restrictions on the matchmaking. just look at the ranked 6v6. soon as the playerbased for that bracket started getting devided the queues started to take for ever for the top and bottom mmr players.
A too strict matchmaking system for a 48total players, would leave to even more destro not even getting in, as a result of order bringing very uneven setups into most cityinstances.

If the floodgates got opened to citysieges so they allow all numbers, what we would see is just the playerbase find the narrowest funnelpoint and you now have funnels in cities too, like we see in keeps and fortresses.

[Nameless]

City queu problem is very easy to fix and will increase the players pleasure quiet abit.
The most easy step is to make city queu possible only for 24 man premade. That way random pug players will be forced to form somehow balanced setups. They still be stomped by top tier premades but there is bigger chance for more equal fight vs avarage premades

[sogeou]

Just imagine playing a PvE MMORPG with the end game content being 20 man raids. Now imagine complaining that you cannot obtain the best gear without joining a premade raid group to do said content. Sounds kind of ridiculous right?

Now imagine playing a PvP MMORPG with the end game being Warband vs Warband PvP and then complaining about having to join an organised warband to obtain the best gear. Again kind of ridiculous.

The worst part is that people are complaining, even though with 0 effort they are still getting free rewards in city for losing. Yet they complain to the devs for even more free rewards. The game is already made extremely solo friendly with how you obtain bags from zone locks these days.

I also like how some people are psychics looking into my mind and they tell me that I rather do some pug stomping than face another premade. I can tell you that many people of these premades rather face other premades than just stomp some pugs in city.

Anything you say will get looked away, you are in TUP. Your guild's views are pretty **** from what I can see. Loves beating pugs, never runs solo or a group of 1 or 2. The fact you can't understand the imbalance is great. You say you want GOOD fights, fixing large groups vs large groups gives you good fights. This should be something you want as a change as it would put you vs something NOT a PUG and a fun city for you.

So, do you see how **** your argument is? One thing this will do is make groups like TUP run 12 mans to not get into an instance of 24 people if they don't have 24.

It is simple, if one side has 24 they should fight 24. If one side has 12, try to put in 1 six man or 2 if possible. That is all. No need for healer this etc. Keep it simple.

They did so much effort for 6v6 and only 60 people play it lol. Forget the other 2-3000 with the city.

[Kwatchi]

Last night’s IC was funny as heck as all the Order premades were scrambling for any healer in 5. The LF posts were actually getting pretty entertaining as we tried to outshine each other. It was so bad the our WB ended up running only 7 healers incl 2 AMs (a big no no for us) & 2 in Conq, with only 23 total. It could have been ugly against the premade we drew but that is why communication is so important (we won incidentally /brag).

As much as the Forumhammer regulars are annoying and pretentious (I’d go on but I’d rather not get banned), they are right in that cities require coordination to win against the top groups. A perfect 2-2-2 comp can get you in the door, but strategy and coordination is what gets you the win.

The Knights/SF alliance regularly runs a training session to make sure new players to the WB pool have their add ons working and understand what we like to do. Just that 15 min of prep alone makes a world of difference.

Moral of the story is: even if you are a wackadoo friends group of 3 dps and 1 healer, you owe it to yourselves to coordinate over Discord/Teamspeak/Google chat/whatever and then have at least a slim chance rather than none. And maybe a few laughs too.

Having said all that, we have beaten/stomped all but one top red team and they have returned the favour. Some days you get the bear and some days he gets you. No point complaining about it because it happens to the best of us.

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Just imagine playing a PvE MMORPG with the end game content being 20 man raids. Now imagine complaining that you cannot obtain the best gear without joining a premade raid group to do said content. Sounds kind of ridiculous right?

Now imagine playing a PvP MMORPG with the end game being Warband vs Warband PvP and then complaining about having to join an organised warband to obtain the best gear. Again kind of ridiculous.

The worst part is that people are complaining, even though with 0 effort they are still getting free rewards in city for losing. Yet they complain to the devs for even more free rewards. The game is already made extremely solo friendly with how you obtain bags from zone locks these days.

I also like how some people are psychics looking into my mind and they tell me that I rather do some pug stomping than face another premade. I can tell you that many people of these premades rather face other premades than just stomp some pugs in city.

Anything you say will get looked away, you are in TUP. Your guild's views are pretty **** from what I can see. Loves beating pugs, never runs solo or a group of 1 or 2. The fact you can't understand the imbalance is great. You say you want GOOD fights, fixing large groups vs large groups gives you good fights. This should be something you want as a change as it would put you vs something NOT a PUG and a fun city for you.

So, do you see how **** your argument is? One thing this will do is make groups like TUP run 12 mans to not get into an instance of 24 people if they don't have 24.

It is simple, if one side has 24 they should fight 24. If one side has 12, try to put in 1 six man or 2 if possible. That is all. No need for healer this etc. Keep it simple.

They did so much effort for 6v6 and only 60 people play it lol. Forget the other 2-3000 with the city.

Ye I want good fights, but we also don't deserve to be "punished" for making a full premade warband and then getting the same rewards when always facing off against the best opposition, while pugs are just fighting crap. And for the record I do play solo sometimes, I have done a lot of duo roaming, I've done 6 man and warband stuff on both destruction and order, so please don't say my view is skewed. Class balance is a totally seperate issue. And the fact that the devs do not want each class to be warband viable is something I also don't understand. But hey I'm not the balance dev and I've been around long enough to know I cannot affect the balance anyway.

[BeautfulToad]

Yes, there are classes you don't always want many of, but you can always make do with them if you have a good balance of classes.

+100000

The number of people stupidly picky about classes is, by far, the most annoying aspects about RoR. Devs could nerf every class in the game, add massively pointless pve grinds, and it would not come close to how annoying class aficionados can be. Order are probably worse than destro for this. Specifically order players that are picky about tanks - literally all SnB tank classes basically do exactly the same thing in mass pvp.

Nearly all dps classes are fine in a wb, and all can slot into a wb. If anything, be picky about gear, not class. It is probably a safe bet to take a SW/SH in vanq/invader over a BW/Sorc in annihilator/conq.

Dont get me started on the "hierarchy of tanks" BS, the "Magus/Engi are poor dps" or choppa/slayer complaints. I remember a few months ago, there was a genuine "Runepriest is not good in a warband" theory doing the rounds. That had to be a 6-year low point in balance discussions. That's ignoring the sheer raw rage directed at dps healer classes, which - tbh - look pretty decent and, of course, should be viable.

[Noslock]

Just imagine playing a PvE MMORPG with the end game content being 20 man raids. Now imagine complaining that you cannot obtain the best gear without joining a premade raid group to do said content. Sounds kind of ridiculous right?

Now imagine playing a PvP MMORPG with the end game being Warband vs Warband PvP and then complaining about having to join an organised warband to obtain the best gear. Again kind of ridiculous.

The worst part is that people are complaining, even though with 0 effort they are still getting free rewards in city for losing. Yet they complain to the devs for even more free rewards. The game is already made extremely solo friendly with how you obtain bags from zone locks these days.

I also like how some people are psychics looking into my mind and they tell me that I rather do some pug stomping than face another premade. I can tell you that many people of these premades rather face other premades than just stomp some pugs in city.

Anything you say will get looked away, you are in TUP. Your guild's views are pretty **** from what I can see. Loves beating pugs, never runs solo or a group of 1 or 2. The fact you can't understand the imbalance is great. You say you want GOOD fights, fixing large groups vs large groups gives you good fights. This should be something you want as a change as it would put you vs something NOT a PUG and a fun city for you.

So, do you see how **** your argument is? One thing this will do is make groups like TUP run 12 mans to not get into an instance of 24 people if they don't have 24.

It is simple, if one side has 24 they should fight 24. If one side has 12, try to put in 1 six man or 2 if possible. That is all. No need for healer this etc. Keep it simple.

They did so much effort for 6v6 and only 60 people play it lol. Forget the other 2-3000 with the city.

I always run solo when no one available
and im in tup...

[Draugris]

The worst part is that people are complaining, even though with 0 effort they are still getting free rewards in city for losing. Yet they complain to the devs for even more free rewards. The game is already made extremely solo friendly with how you obtain bags from zone locks these days.

It´s so funny every time i read such things. Imagine that there are people who want to do content because it´s fun and not for the pure rewards only. Imagine that for some people this is leisure and not work. I don´t give a f.. if i get seven crests or 10 or 1, the point is, city is not fun at the moment. Wild matching premades and solos is not interesting PvP for both sides, I mean if you really were a Red Guard member, wtf whom i am telling this coming from a competitive PvP Guild. I agree with you though on disabling solo queue.