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Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

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Illuminati
Posts: 172

Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#1 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:18 pm

I've seen several of these threads disappear. The most recent thread was filled with civil discourse and feedback about this Alpha version.
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Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 6

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 6454
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Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:20 pm

They're certainly filled with some kind of discourse.
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saupreusse
Former Staff
Posts: 2069

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#3 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:32 pm

The last thread was gold. I would like to be able to see it again so i can add it to meme folder.

Illuminati
Posts: 172

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#4 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 pm

Are WLs being reviewed for balance adjustments? that may put an end to the constant feedback from players about the class.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 6

Foofmonger
Posts: 323

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#5 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm

It was a pretty awful thread TBH, it started poorly and was going off the rails. I believe you and I, Illuminati were trying to get it back to be more reasonable/on rails but there's only so much you can do when you have 3 pages of people arguing over nerfed buttons or some nonsense.

If we want, I'd be happy to start a new thread (or if you want to do it), in the balance suggestions forum so we can have (hopefully) a more constructive discussion.

Illuminati
Posts: 172

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#6 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:51 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm
It was a pretty awful thread TBH, it started poorly and was going off the rails. I believe you and I, Illuminati were trying to get it back to be more reasonable/on rails but there's only so much you can do when you have 3 pages of people arguing over nerfed buttons or some nonsense.

If we want, I'd be happy to start a new thread (or if you want to do it), in the balance suggestions forum so we can have (hopefully) a more constructive discussion.
We may want to wait out staff response or it's all moot.
————————————————
Destro: Killamanjaro (80+ Choppa) / Killamanjaroo (70+ DoK) / Unsworn (70+ Chosen) / Illuminatii (60+ Blackguard) / Killaman (80+ Squig)
Order: ?

Bugs reported: 6

thedonkeykong332
Suspended
Posts: 170

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#7 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:56 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm
It was a pretty awful thread TBH, it started poorly and was going off the rails. I believe you and I, Illuminati were trying to get it back to be more reasonable/on rails but there's only so much you can do when you have 3 pages of people arguing over nerfed buttons or some nonsense.

If we want, I'd be happy to start a new thread (or if you want to do it), in the balance suggestions forum so we can have (hopefully) a more constructive discussion.
You cant discuss in a civil way when you have trolls here and people trying to personally bash you for simply stating facts, the only way to fight them is to shut up them down, since this behaviour isn't being moderated that's what it comes to.

Foofmonger
Posts: 323

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#8 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:58 pm

Illuminati wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:51 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm
It was a pretty awful thread TBH, it started poorly and was going off the rails. I believe you and I, Illuminati were trying to get it back to be more reasonable/on rails but there's only so much you can do when you have 3 pages of people arguing over nerfed buttons or some nonsense.

If we want, I'd be happy to start a new thread (or if you want to do it), in the balance suggestions forum so we can have (hopefully) a more constructive discussion.
We may want to wait out staff response or it's all moot.
Never stopped me before. It tooks years of posting about the Marauder to Mythic to get any kind of response. :D

At least this dev team is far more communicative. Even if they don't want to review WL balance or tune it down, that will inform us of the proper "tune ups" needed for other classes, as clearly philosophically here there is an issue, it's just whether the solution is "WL is a model DPS class" or "WL is not a model DPS class". If WL is a model DPS class, that means the other classes should be tuned with that in mind. If the WL is not, then this informs us that the current balance is an aberration and needs to be tuned down.

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Foofmonger
Posts: 323

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#9 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:00 pm

thedonkeykong332 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:56 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:44 pm
It was a pretty awful thread TBH, it started poorly and was going off the rails. I believe you and I, Illuminati were trying to get it back to be more reasonable/on rails but there's only so much you can do when you have 3 pages of people arguing over nerfed buttons or some nonsense.

If we want, I'd be happy to start a new thread (or if you want to do it), in the balance suggestions forum so we can have (hopefully) a more constructive discussion.
You cant discuss in a civil way when you have trolls here and people trying to personally bash you for simply stating facts, the only way to fight them is to shut up them down, since this behaviour isn't being moderated that's what it comes to.
Meh you still can, you just need to ignore the clear attempts at trolling or bad faith arguments. The goal is not to "win" every response that you get, but to have a constructive and civil discussion. That means you need to let some things just slide off and not react to them, as the goal of trolling is to prompt a response from the person being trolled. Therefore the way to "deal with trolls" is to "not acknowledge them". For instance, if you look at the last WL thread, (well you can't cause its deleted) all of my responses were to reasonable people. The "one liners about wow how you so stupid" are just ignored as fluff and noise.

Another thing to consider is depth of analysis. Responses that cite no evidence, no hard numbers, and don't make compelling arguments are really worth responding to. Responses such as "the class is so OP if you dont know that you are blind" or "in my experience the class is fine and destro whines too much", are quite literally absolutely worthless opinions that have no more thought than my last fart.

We need to talk numbers, evidence, understanding how the classes are played at the highest level and why they are strong, as it directly correlates to both group and wb composition as well as content type. The reality is, the average players opinion on class balance isn't very good, and lazy/half assed analysis/opinions aren't worth anything over "silence". So again, to have a civil discussion you basically just ignore those super lazy responses.

Lastly there is a weird group-think/polarization that happens when you have 2 factions (or political parties, or whatever, this has repeated ad-nauseum throughout human history). So you need to be able to recognize "my side/biased" arguments/opinions. There are just some people who are so far down the "my side is **** and the other is better" grass is greener logical fallacy, that they no longer have a semi-objective opinion of balance. These responses should also be ignored as well, even if they begin to try and make more compelling arugments then the 1 liner lazy analysis above. These analysis may be deeper, but if the premise if off in the first place (the devs are screwing me on purpose, theres a 1 side bias, etc...), it's again not going to be constructive. So people who come into these discussions trying to push their "conspiracy theories" of the dev team are again, not great forms of analysis.
Last edited by Foofmonger on Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

gandresch
Posts: 117

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#10 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:01 pm

Even if the WL will get nerfed more. The whine will still continue on forums. Just remember when Azaraels changed for a short time the WL. He meant it good but destroyed the class.
Destro players still made whine posts about the damage in this time. You have to get used to it.

For me the WL is fine. It makes sense that it does more damage in the first seconds since after the initial burst his damage gets low and has no pressure anymore.
Would be interesting to see tests but I am sure that for example a Marauder does more (constant) damage in the long run.

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