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Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

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sogeou
Posts: 187

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#21 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:45 pm

vanbuinen77 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:40 pm
Remove wl pounce.

Instant fix as the issue isnt their damage but mobility
I am down for that, remove all speed tactics and we have a deal. Peter said it best as WL's are in there to deal with SH SUPER high mobility and Shaman. Remove all that stuff and it balances out.

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M0rw47h
Posts: 414

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#22 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:53 pm

sogeou wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:45 pm
vanbuinen77 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:40 pm
Remove wl pounce.

Instant fix as the issue isnt their damage but mobility
I am down for that, remove all speed tactics and we have a deal. Peter said it best as WL's are in there to deal with SH SUPER high mobility and Shaman. Remove all that stuff and it balances out.
Except it doesn't, you can't remove tool which makes WL viable in larger scale, because of 1v1. WL needs Pounce for assist training, as loner is WL selling point.
Anyway, according to Secrets some changes are incoming (it's not like I haven't told Mara will be hit with "nerf WL"):

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Anathae [KotBS] / Anathea [WP] ( and couple others )
former Anathae [Zealot]

thedonkeykong332
Suspended
Posts: 170

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#23 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:58 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:41 pm
thedonkeykong332 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:34 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:29 pm


He is not trolling, although he tends to be sarcastic. That is also not "toxic behavior", that's just part of normal humanity.

The reality is, that thread is garbage. The OP starts the thread with hyberbole, attacking the dev team, and has a long stupid post that is devoid of a constructive discussion. There was no civil or constructive discussion that will come out of a thread that starts in that manner. This goes back to the point I have above on posts by people who are "so far down the grass is greener" logical fallacy, which that OP clearly is. It's a bad thread.

Wargrimnir, while being (maybe) sarcastic, has seen thousands of these poorly written, poorly worded, lazy balance threads. They don't need to see more whining and opinions, they are going to want facts and figures and actual analysis.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the devs closing these awful and biased threads. I don't care if its Order or Destro, if the thread starts out with "blah blah grass is greener my side is **** your side is OP devs are biased blah blah blah" that thread SHOULD be closed. They are absolutely worthless and do not lead to constructive discussion. You don't get to having a civil or constructive discussion when the entire premise of the discussion is ruined by bias and stupidity.
Being sarcastic in every post to almost every guy, encourages this kind of behaviour, and people will avoid talking about it because they don't want to get bashed in this certain way, if you're the head admin here you shouldn't encourage this behaviour but instead like you said ignore and just close the thread or put a sticky to end it once & for all, but the guy chose to answer in a different unprofessional way. if this kind of behaviour comes from an admin you can't blame the players for bashing threads.

just 2 weeks ago you had another WL post it was very civil and the guy just got bashed and eventually the thread got closed? it started civil so ? did anything change? did people discussed in a civilized way? no the guy got bashed because it seems this is the kind of atmosphere going around here bashing people and it seems to be fine as well.
Which is exactly why I make the posts I do. I don't disagree that the community needs to be more reasonable and civil. That's why I directly point out that people are falling into the rabbit hole of polarization.

That being said, put yourself in the devs team shoes too. This is not their job. They do this for free, in their free time, for fun. If you were seeing the same lazy posts and whines over and over and over again for years, I'm sure you would be a little fed up with it too. Nobody is perfect, so lets keep the stones in our hands instead of throwing them at glass houses. Expecting the private server dev team who does this for free to act like a full game company whose goal is to generate revenue is asinine. They don't have to act in any certain way or manner, and thinking that they do is a legacy of how you interact with game companies who are trying to turn a profit. The reality is those people think the same things, they just can't post them because of their company policies as if they do, it might hurt the companies revenue/bottom line. ROR has no revenue/bottom line, so the devs are free to be themselves with their own personalities instead of being little corporate robots.

That's not a bad thing by the way, just the way the real world works. Nobody here, including the staff, owes you, me, or anyone else anything, and I'm certainly not interested in trying to tell the dev team that they have to act in any certain manner when they are doing all this work, for us the community, for free.
I understand what you mean, but they made this game and brought a community up in a certain way they do have a responsibility, yeah they do it for free but if this goes on & on it will hurt it in the long run, and I'm sure it already had in some way. everyone has a choice they have a choice to decide how to deal with this certain behaviour, for sure acting like this will only just ignite the flames more. in any place a Leader suppose to set an example when the example here that it's okay to bash people, this will discrouage civil conversations, and bring the toxic bashing behaviour on.
No one forced them to make this game, and I'm sure we as people who play it are grateful in a way and if it was possible I'm sure people would even donate or pay, But that doesn't mean it allows them to be abusive and encourage abusive behaviour, just because they're doing it for free.

Otherwise lets serve the homeless food and then abuse them, I mean why not? I'm doing it for free.

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Valarion
Posts: 227

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#24 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:16 pm

Illuminati wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 pm
Are WLs being reviewed for balance adjustments? that may put an end to the constant feedback from players about the class.
The devs have already made this clear: there is not going to be any adjustment to WLs whatsoever.. To continue to ask is just going to anger Sigmar. I once had a in game conversation with a dev I will not name about toning down the damage on my WL and lets just say it didnt go well. The devs are fully aware that the highest mobility class in the game also has the highest burst potential and they are fine with it.

So I humbly and respectfully ask you adapt your gameplay around this fact or you are just going to rage vent. The devs are at least open to alternatives, just not with WL for some reason (at least not with the devs I spoke to).

My best advice to Destro would be to ask for significant buffs to mdps SH making them at least equally viable and feared in small group. The devs are rational and open you just need to approach them with good ideas that have NOTHING to do with WLs right now.
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40s: WP/Dok/AM/Shaman/KoTBS/Chosen/BW/RP/Zealot/WL/Sorc. Alts: BO/SH/SM/Eng

desizt
Posts: 94

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#25 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:23 pm

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Last edited by desizt on Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Foofmonger
Posts: 315

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#26 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 pm

Valarion wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:16 pm
Illuminati wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:42 pm
Are WLs being reviewed for balance adjustments? that may put an end to the constant feedback from players about the class.
The devs have already made this clear: there is not going to be any adjustment to WLs whatsoever.. To continue to ask is just going to anger Sigmar. I once had a in game conversation with a dev I will not name about toning down the damage on my WL and lets just say it didnt go well. The devs are fully aware that the highest mobility class in the game also has the highest burst potential and they are fine with it.

So I humbly and respectfully ask you adapt your gameplay around this fact or you are just going to rage vent. The devs are at least open to alternatives, just not with WL for some reason (at least not with the dev I spoke to).

My best advice would be to ask for significant buffs to mdps SH making them at least equally viable in small group.
If that's the case, then as I tried to illustrate in the above post, that makes "the WL a model DPS" that the game should be tuned around.

I have plenty of ideas on this subject if this is the philosophical position that the devs take.

Significant buffs to mdps SH is an option, but would require a lot of work. Alternatively, we could look towards boosting the Marauders mobility (and/or Destros overall mobility), as they already have similar (but lower) ST burst to a WL, which would require much less work and bring parity to the 4 way mirror of SW/SH/WL/Mara, instead of overstacking on the SH, making it an aoe/st beast, and leaving the Mara as the only class in the 4 way mirror that doesn't get a pounce or teleport ability. Also, shadow step was added into the game with no parity counterpart for destro, which directly leads to the order mobility advantage cited in some other threads (one by you I believe recently).

Another option that matters (but less so) is looking at Wings of Heaven parity (or similar) for a destro tank class. Now, I guess it would be hard to do from a lore perspective, but I'm sure you can finagle some way of making a BO "run real fast" or something, or a Chosem using a "Tzeentch Warp" or some creative nonsense.

sogeou
Posts: 187

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#27 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:32 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 pm
Another option that matters (but less so) is looking at Wings of Heaven parity (or similar) for a destro tank class. Now, I guess it would be hard to do from a lore perspective, but I'm sure you can finagle some way of making a BO "run real fast" or something, or a Chosem using a "Tzeentch Warp" or some creative nonsense.
I think if they gave the magus a portal M 2 would be fun. Like port to a safe spot that only your team could use.

Foofmonger
Posts: 315

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#28 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:34 pm

sogeou wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:32 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 pm
Another option that matters (but less so) is looking at Wings of Heaven parity (or similar) for a destro tank class. Now, I guess it would be hard to do from a lore perspective, but I'm sure you can finagle some way of making a BO "run real fast" or something, or a Chosem using a "Tzeentch Warp" or some creative nonsense.
I think if they gave the magus a portal M 2 would be fun. Like port to a safe spot that only your team could use.
A group "safety" teleport would be neat, but doesn't actually help the particular issue at hand and would just reduce overall parity between the two factions further, unless the Engie (or another Order class) is given the same thing. Love the idea, but what destro specifically needs are mobility skills that allows them to close distance rapidly and attack people, a la the functionality of things like pounce, shadowstep, and wings of heaven.

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sogeou
Posts: 187

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#29 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:41 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:34 pm
A group "safety" teleport would be neat, but doesn't actually help the particular issue at hand and would just reduce overall parity between the two factions further, unless the Engie (or another Order class) is given the same thing. Love the idea, but what destro specifically needs are mobility skills that allows them to close distance rapidly and attack people, a la the functionality of things like pounce, shadowstep, and wings of heaven.
Well, the Dev's aka War said they are not interested in mirrors, but a more unique play for each side. So, WH / WE might be mirrors, but moves / skills won't be clones. I feel it is better off doing that than nerfing some move and giving it to the other side, ala WP's old version of cleansing power or DOK's old 1001.

I just saw what you wrote and idea popped in my head as it would be cool. Hell, even if the magus could portal swap people with their pet as a move that would be good. Could be used as an escape tool. Or port a tank in the back line.

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Valarion
Posts: 227

Re: Are WL feedback threads being deleted by Mods?

Post#30 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:42 pm

Foofmonger wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:25 pm
If that's the case, then as I tried to illustrate in the above post, that makes "the WL a model DPS" that the game should be tuned around.

I have plenty of ideas on this subject if this is the philosophical position that the devs take.

Significant buffs to mdps SH is an option, but would require a lot of work. Alternatively, we could look towards boosting the Marauders mobility (and/or Destros overall mobility), as they already have similar (but lower) ST burst to a WL, which would require much less work and bring parity to the 4 way mirror of SW/SH/WL/Mara, instead of overstacking on the SH, making it an aoe/st beast, and leaving the Mara as the only class in the 4 way mirror that doesn't get a pounce or teleport ability. Also, shadow step was added into the game with no parity counterpart for destro, which directly leads to the order mobility advantage cited in some other threads (one by you I believe recently).

Another option that matters (but less so) is looking at Wings of Heaven parity (or similar) for a destro tank class. Now, I guess it would be hard to do from a lore perspective, but I'm sure you can finagle some way of making a BO "run real fast" or something, or a Chosem using a "Tzeentch Warp" or some creative nonsense.

All you need to do to make mSH viable is to grant them a stronger debuff and increase ST burst to match WL. Unless Im mistaken, thats literally it. My bias is small scale 6man, so perhaps thats clouding my perception of the class.
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40s: WP/Dok/AM/Shaman/KoTBS/Chosen/BW/RP/Zealot/WL/Sorc. Alts: BO/SH/SM/Eng

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