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let's talk about city ability faction bias

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Wam
Legacy RR80
Posts: 657

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#31 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:37 pm

order is easy, destro got nerfed and still order people struggle? destro dont run top tier setups like they use to either.

it is kinda sad that people on their main faction are totally clueless about the strengths and weaknesses and just make up non sense to support their agenda

we was beating destro best guild premades with our alts on order, when destro could a) perma morale drain b) had a morale bomb

Destro struggle to morale drain, and their morale bomb has been neutered... order havent been neutered they had training wheels attached to make it simply to make up for bad positioning from the majority of playerbase who spend more effort QQ more than L2P

Previously top tier enemies could counter morale bomb with good CC from tanks and siphon m2 from WP... now they can just laugh at morale bomb... yet still if order are losing en masse all the time then their setup and assist is pretty bad.

Bring 2-2-2 setups, know how to balance them before you talk out of ass about bias ... things have been tilted to help out order. You no longer need AM morale pump, solar flare, you can out heal and out dmg enemy... and only a handful of destro premades have any juice.
Wamizzle Guild Leader [TUP]
Wamizzle Guild Leader [The Unlikely Plan]

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TreefAM
Posts: 258

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#32 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:38 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:11 pm
TreefAM wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:20 pm
People still think that a destro melee ball is anything close to the fighting power of a slayerball, pugs will pug I guess.
There is certain issue here.
If we agree that "slayerball" is better than "destroball", because slayers are overperforming, we will notice that other order classes are underperforming for various reasons.
Yeah I know, sadly order players are pushed to play only a couple of classes to actually be viable and are more or less useless in city situations. I mean some destro guilds even consider just stacking maras since they can survive more punishment vs slayerballs than a sorc/choppa or mSH/choppa combos.

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hammerhead
Posts: 144

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#33 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:33 pm

Well, of course, everything in the city is decided by the correct composition, positioning, and so on. What to do with it (1:50)

https://youtu.be/ttTDVNzEZvA?t=6679

It is a pity I do not know the participants personally, can anyone enlighten the situation? I understand this balance when the 65rr chosen in a mix of sent/redeye calmly and unconstrainedly defeats his 75th mirror in the sov/invader mix. Maybe kobs changed into a two-handed oppressor (dominator?) ...
Alpha tanks are pulled like a doll across the arena, can’t imagine the best anti-advertising for the order.

upd. And with my breaker I approximately reached the same results. Fighting with the chosen is now like hitting with a broken arm into a concrete wall.
(\|)o0(|/)

slattie
Posts: 26

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#34 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:11 pm

@stophy22

"It's okay to point out realm imbalances but to believe it only exists on one side is ignorance in its finest."

You're assuming that I believe realm imbalances exist only on order side. I don't believe this. Ignorance? Perhaps from you. Tool

"-Goblins get run away because WL's get pounce, deal with it."
"I apologize for your lack of game knowledge..."
Lookie here, these are your words, have a snack. Squig herders have pounce, yes? Ignorance?

"-Squig charge.... sigh"
Very gimmicky ability, yes. Order doesn't have anything similar. Are you aware of this when you sigh? Ignorance definitely the problem here.

"-Haven't tested magus thingy but magus isn't really brought to city bruv…"
...unless you're FMJ. FMJ is the most feared destr city guild. You must not be a part of the top feared destr guild if you're saying magus isn't really brought to city. Ignorance?

"-Mara frontal cone aoe interrupt is nice but hardly a cause for "getting railed in city""
This ability is completely overtuned in comparison with order's abilities. The original post was pointing out destr bias and opening discussion for order bias, not complaining about losing city. You're assuming I'm getting railed in city. I am not. In fact, read this:

FMJ usually defeats my grp, but the fights are usually close. Sometimes it's a killstomp! Our best score against fmj is 2/3 stages won.(We may have had a victory, but I wasn't there.) Other top grps - PNP(a great close fight), and Dachosen grp (great fun sweaty fight). Any grp not mentioned are on farm status. Like WoM, Zarbix grp... mb TUP? Don't think we've fought a full 24, but have defeated 6 or 12 mans. Stryke, defeated so badly they quit! #respect though! Are you part of FMJ, Dachosen, or PNP? if not, then I am farming you in city. If yes, then I enjoy our fights. Do you doubt? need screenshots to prove it? head to knights of order city screenshot channel. Don't be ignorant!

"If you have an even skill level in city morales usually decide the win"
Mb if you have the same low skill level. I will give you that before resilient morales decided cities.

"I apologize for your lack of game knowledge but if you join a good guild and learn a few things I'm sure you'll see success, lol."
Not sure, but i'm pretty sure that you're on city farm status for my group. Whenever we have a farmer city, we all say things like, " 'Looks like another boring fight', 'Wish we fought a stronger grp', and 'These city screenshots numbers won't be a proper gauge for this new spec I'm trying because these fools just melt' ". Assuming i'm part of a weak city grp that loses? No no, that assumption would be ignorant.

ActAppalled
Posts: 20

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#35 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:32 pm

So according to destro guys here AOE knockdowns mean nothing, in a melee battle... yeah it's not like KDs in this game are the most reliable way to get a kill in any setting, it's not like an AOE knockdown plus morale drop is extremely effective versus destro just having the freedom to space out and move away when they see an order morale bomb incoming (which is basically obvious with the BWs and other classses all charging into one spot suddenly).
It's not like destro get another CC AOE ability in the form of GTDC which also happens to be undefendable and is yet another tool to keep the order melee into the superior destro AOE melee deathball. But Slayers get a defense bypass ability which affects less people than GTDC and is NOT a form of CC but everything is balanced?
I have played many PvP MMOs and CC is always king, destro have 2 extremely strong CC abilities that also happen to be AoE that order has no answer for, now add the superior AoE pressure from the destro deathball and the imbalance is glaring. Yes mSH + Mara >>>> WL and aSW in city AOE dmg pressure setting and bring way more utility (they are also tankier lol ...), the destro tanks arguably add more pressure too (over the order equivelants). Add it all together and it's obvious why the destro melee deathball is always used and always effective in pretty much every aspect of this game (yes Order has an Ranged DPS imbalance but even when mDPS are there they got rolled over too, I see it daily).

From someone who has played both sides (mSH on destro and WL on order, both in guild 2/2/2 premades) it's not even close, being a melee DPS on order is miserable and requires way more co-ordination, spacial/positioniong awareness and tactics. You get instantly CCed and melted almost instantly even with guard as a WL, pounce means nothing when you are being ping ponged around or lying on the ground unable to act. The only utility a WL brings in their AOE city spec is their decent AOE damage and Interrupt, which you can't do much of versus the superior CC and AOE dmg of destro.
The same 15feet interrupt which WL have to spec for and is inferior to the innate Mara one, which someone earlier was trying to downplay yet it interrupts the WL Whirling Axe AOE leaving a WL with just Cleave spam...

And the answer to all this blatant imbalance is .... all reroll a Slayer (which doesn't have any AOE cc either and it's arguable if Rampage would be enough to win), I personally doubt it as that composition will be lacking in utility from the lack of class diversity. Nevertheless for "Slayerball" to be the suggestion to dismiss everything and act like there's balance just shows the deep level of destro bias from people that only play one side.

havartii
Posts: 164

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#36 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 pm

Order has counters but they would rather have 5 bw and 5 sw with am healing. I see it all the time.. is just really selfish play. Order wins in city, when the organize properly. I do agree destro follows a simple formula and it works.

Dteekay
Posts: 17

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#37 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:04 pm

Here’s the only real problem. GTTC strips all your defences. That’s it. That’s the whole problem right there. In tight spaces in the city, with a melee ball, getting insta pulled by a choppa often means instant death even if you are geared. So essentially you are giving “rampage” to your whole warband when you pull someone in. And the kick is there isn’t any defence against the first tic pull. We shut down choppas right away with interrupts as they cast GTTC but first person always gets pulled and often insta killed. And immunities? Not relevant to the skill apparently and why this seems to be such a normality is beyond me.

All other skills mentioned are just fine I think. We don’t want a mirrored game. It’s extra fun to have unique characters on each side. Order has some skills Destro doesn’t have and vice versa. The point of the order “whining” isn’t about taking skills away. It’s about simply FIXING them. It’s fine if choppas have GTTC, it’s awesome watching a huge Choppa in full sov creating a cyclone with their massive weapons. But let’s be real here, the way the skill works is broken as hell.

ClemmonGrab
Posts: 49

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#38 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:07 pm

havartii wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 pm
Order has counters but they would rather have 5 bw and 5 sw with am healing. I see it all the time.. is just really selfish play. Order wins in city, when the organize properly. I do agree destro follows a simple formula and it works.
If you bothered to read the conversation before posting, we are talking about high end cities, not the /5 level comps you are bringing up.

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agemennon675
Posts: 146

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#39 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:27 pm

ClemmonGrab wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:07 pm
havartii wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:46 pm
Order has counters but they would rather have 5 bw and 5 sw with am healing. I see it all the time.. is just really selfish play. Order wins in city, when the organize properly. I do agree destro follows a simple formula and it works.
If you bothered to read the conversation before posting, we are talking about high end cities, not the /5 level comps you are bringing up.
I dont think even /5 pugs bring 5SW's btw, that leaves all SW's to que solo, along with all engis, leftover AM's, That is why you see that kind of comps

Foofmonger
Posts: 436

Re: let's talk about city ability faction bias

Post#40 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:01 pm

Oh........ the grass is always greener, on the other side!

This thread is like reading a noobs fever dream.

For those of you who happen to be new to Warhammer Online, welcome! This game has asymmetrical class/faction balance, has always had that, and always will. The classes and factions are not direct mirrors of each other, and both of them are capable of a variety of things that the other faction is not. Again, this is intentional.

Any post where you talk about "the other side" but ignore your own sides advantages is what we generally call "extremely stupid".

This has been a standard PSA for noobs.

Thanks!

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