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Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

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Charon
Posts: 297

Re: Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

Post#41 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:30 pm

Nameless wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:01 pm
Spellbound wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:03 pm
Also propose letting the pulled target keep their same defenses they had before they got pulled and the function is just simply being bringing the target closer. So they’re not naked not wearing any armor in the air. Apply to all pulls not just GTDC.
Is this true? You lose All defences while in air? And what that means? No parry/dodge/disrupt?
ask your self ... why gtdc is usually combined with mara aoe kd and morale dump / bomb
Karak Azgal - Haron WP
Karak Norn - Haeroon KoTBS
RoR:
- Chaeron - SM
- Nogrun - magnet eng
- Cheron - i want sorc Black Horror skill for my BW ;)

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

Post#42 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:39 pm

gurtuk wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:31 am
Kwatchi wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:24 am
Detangler wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:29 am You could just be thankful that the Choppa gave your tanks free punt immunity when they got dragged an entire 15 feet over a half second so your mdps can happily keep their guard up. Also you can still fire off instant abilities while in the air, just like any other punt/pull, so there's that, too. "Disabling an entire warband"....
The immunity is iffy, only being granted some of the time. But Mythic's underlying code is at fault there so what can you do?

Having said that, have you ever wondered why FMJ's runs a four Choppa comp? In skilled hands like theirs, there is no viable counter. You just try to sustain through and get out of the rez cycle if possible.
Have you ever wondered why good coordinated order city warbands run 4-5 white lion/6-7 warrior priest comps? GTTC isn't even that good as stated above, giving an entire warband immunity just so you can throw them around a little.
Since the pull is such a liability for Choppas and Destro, lets remove it completely. This should help balance some SW changes.

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

Post#43 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:45 pm

desizt wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:38 pm Pro Order players, please tell me what's the counter play of WL pounce and aSW assault and Slayer's Rampage?

/sigh
Pounce: literally walk away and Detaunt if you have to. Pounce by nature puts you out of a natural position, which means you can easily be mobbed if you aren't ready to run away after. If I can survive top-geared WL on my Magus without even breaking a sweat, you can too.

aSW, they barely exist anywhere that matters.

Rampage, just be happy he wasted a GCD and all his rage so he could punch through your 5% parry on a Sorc/Zealot. Lets face it, 90% of you whining about rampage couldn't even Parry a goblin wiener. If you're a Chosen that thinks you should be invincible because you stacked two tactics and clicked one button, try Toughness/Wounds, the off-brand flavor of survivability the rest of the game uses to live. Or maybe use that M2 which jacks HoTs on you up to 2k+ per tick, and praise Tzeentch for the fact that Destro is permitted godlike M2s while Knight/Engi ones get pooped on.

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

Post#44 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:57 pm

Foofmonger wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:50 pm I'm literally asking a question, if it's GTDC or the fact that FMJs Choppas are just great at their DPS rotations. Just because you have reading comprehension problems doesn't mean what I posted is incorrect.

So to recap it for you:

1. I think GTDC is basically almost worthless in organized settings. I stated this and I stand by it. Sorry if that confuses you.
2. Someone responded saying "well FMJ runs a bunch of choppas using GTDC" and they do well. I'm aware of this, because I literally am in the same alliance and have played with these specific Choppas.
3. I propose a question, is it actually GTDC that makes FMJs choppas strong? Or is it the fact that they are just the best choppas on the server and know how to play and GTDC is a red herring argument that misses the point?

Are you still confused of where we are now? Before calling people out make sure you understand what is being stated, which you clearly did not. Just because Destro wbs use Choppas in their melee set ups doesn't mean that they use them "because of GTDC" or that "GTDC is the reason the strat works", while that may be the case, that's literally why I'm asking/proposing the question. Is that the actual reason? Or is it because the Choppa class as a whole is a solid pick for a destro melee deathball being the highest damage AoE MDPS class destro has? :roll:

What do you expect a destro MDPS train to run? 100% witch elves and DPS DoKs?

In my personal experience, GTDC is not the reason you run Choppas, and is effectively a non-factor in cities. It gives out free immunities, randomly jumbles the enemy around which breaks your assist train, prevents your Marauders from pulling in high value targets (due to the immunities), prevents tanks from being able to knockback guarding tanks to focus down targets, and is basically just more effective as a general interrupt than anything else, of which it's actually worse then the Mara AOE interrupt. It can occasionally be useful in some situations (such as charging into a backline of healers who forgot what pre-kiting is so you can save a little time chasing them around), but more often than not it's just an AoE damage channel and it's primary use is for deathball AOE damage and most of the "pulling" aspect of it is actually detrimental in many cases.

I don't know what world we live in where anyone thinks that GTDC is a more important factor in cities than Rampage is, which is far more impactful.

1. GTDC would be useful for the damage and speed boost alone.
3. Lol please. "Best choppa on the server," you may as well say best drool-bucket filler on the server. Choppas take next to no skill, believe me. If you don't, I will take control of someone's Choppa and clean house and take screenshots.

Addendum:

If Choppa pull is nothing but a liability, then remove the pull period. :) And Foof, I've played in tons of cities against your Mara and it's rare that you ever really pull anyone. It's not because you're bad, but it's because those perfect situations where Mara pull over Choppa pull is actually some huge net gain in value to a city fight are rare. Its rich also for Destro say Order "should just pre-kite" but the mere THREAT of GTDC pull means Order healers/ranged need to pre-kite simply upon SEEING a Choppa or a Marauder. This is unlike a Destro backline which can fall back on all sorts of tricks in order to hold their ground (Run Away, RUN AWAY!, Winds of Insanity, etc), and have no seriously threatening pulls to contend with (WL pull is obvious and has a 5ft kill radius around the Lion, Engi pull has a delay vs. Magus pull, no Choppa pull). Constantly staying out of a 65/40 foot kill radius takes a lot of maneuvering which costs you casting time.

Rampage is in effect a damage boost vs guarding shield tanks *from the front only*, which in practice is negligible. Slayers have enough raw str to essentially negate the parry of most DPS. The DPS will 95% of the time die sooner than the tank regardless of what's happening.

Harrwin
Posts: 28

Re: Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

Post#45 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:22 pm

Have no fear, Teiloh is here, to strawman everything, again!

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: Counterplay for Get to the Choppa

Post#46 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:46 pm

Harrwin wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:22 pm Have no fear, Teiloh is here, to strawman everything, again!
So you're admitting that the pull is something other than a liability?

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