City Winner History?

[velenne]

I think the point Wargrimnir is making is not "we won't buff underperforming classes", it's "we are already planning on and actively work on doing so, so forum threads like this don't really impact that".

I feel like we have overall good consensus and understanding at this point no?

If that's indeed the understanding (it's not one I took away from it so far), then yes, I'm very happy knowing the devs are actively working on something to correct what this post is bringing to light.

I'll do my part and try to keep organizing the order guilds together so long as they're bringing renewed purpose to the beleaguered, besmirched and all-around pariahs of the order meta.

[Foofmonger]

I feel like everybody is looking over the l2p issues. I can agree that it's not the dominant cause of order losing but i've had a city a couple of days ago in a semi pug against a "top" order city guild ( with alliance filler i believe ) with 2 witch elves that, comp wise, we had no business winning, but still won, just because they had a lot of weak links.
I do believe a significant cause is also the marauder monstro proc denying huge amounts of incoming damage, but nobody seems to be talking about it.

Marauder Monstro proc is honestly probably OP. You're talking about, I'm happy to.

I'd love to trade some value of Monstro proc for some mobility personally. The Marauder is too tanky and too slow at the moment. How bout nerf it down to 50% and give us shadowstep as 15 point ability in brut tree?

[Duukar]

I’m a veteran of PvP MMOs like DAoC. I know how to invest time wisely to get top tier gear and then PvP my balls off. I’m usually in top tier guilds and experience lots of winning. I’m addicted to the underdog hence I’m stuck on Order(I have a 40/50 BO in a top alliance). I played Albion mainly in DAoC. Glutton for punishment.

In all my 20 years of serious online gaming I’ve not seen such an imbalanced outcome.

I’ve never seen the devs and veteran players turn on newer players and casuals so fiercely. You NEED targets to kill don’t you?

I just read 17 pages that all say one thing. Most of Order has rolled the wrong class due to stupidity or vanity. Please correct me if I’m wrong here. I’m struggling with this....

Ok so how do we fix this? I love WAR and I want to keep playing. You are telling all of us we need to reroll to six specific classes that a lot of players don’t want to play on Order. For sure it’s true, but this problem won’t fix itself.

I propose double XP and renown for Order Tanks, Runepriests, Warrior Priests, Slayers and WLs for two weeks. As part of that additional renown bonuses for damage mitigated by guard. Gotta incentivize guarding apparently.

Your turn.

PS thanks for taking time to address my issues. If I’m saying it guaranteed there are 100s of other thinking it.

One of my pet peeves in dealing with people on the forums is wild hyperbole and ridiculous exaggeration. That's usually when I start to tune them out and move along to my happy place.

Your double XP suggestion is hilarious. I breathed slightly harder out of my nostrils whilst reading it. Good luck leveling.

I asked you for an idea of how you would fix the problem that YOU identified.

Here I am, a new player going in on the GM and veteran players with 8 geared and RRed toons trying to get through to you guys and somehow explain that once you identify a problem the next step is coming up with ideas to fix it. I know a bit about the topic being a new player and directly affected by rolling the wrong class.

You shoot down my ideas and present none of your own other than to maintain the status quo. Then you insult me on top of it. I’m not crying. I’m trying to help you fix what the numbers show (real data) is an incredible lack of balance.

Now I’ll go sit in the corner and fume while you guys go about lording you’re superiority over the rest of us who support your project.

I’m done with this topic.

[Elemint]

Marauder Monstro proc is honestly probably OP. You're talking about, I'm happy to.

I'd love to trade some value of Monstro proc for some mobility personally. The Marauder is too tanky and too slow at the moment. How bout nerf it down to 50% and give us shadowstep as 15 point ability in brut tree?

I've never ever had issues with mobility on mara. Charge and rootbreaker is all an MDPS should need. Since ASW doesn't have rootbreaker, it's fine for them to have the pounce. WL is... WL i guess. There is an art to movement that gets destroyed when adding more mobility.

[Wam]

60-40 ... is surprising that destro ain't got a higher % win rate to be honest with the sheer amount of solo que and bad setups order usually bring... In the first week of city release ... destro pugs got semi organised and made discords / core groups and 2-2-2 setups... they would spam /5 looking for whats needed. Order get farmed and still repeat same thing over and over and cry about system instead of adapt to system like destro pugs did... yet the system is to blame? system is not perfect but if you roll the dice and bring bad compo it is what it is nothing more nothing less.

Order have always had the tools to compete, just people overlook them and not utilise fully... people trying to play cities likes its orvr made it even more struggle for themselves. All it took was one city to learn the do's and don'ts with composition and style... over time i relax on it or bring more inferior compo's due to less choice and things become harder because of it... but most people don't bring best setup anymore so its even more RNG

Destro morale drain is taken away... before order tanks would never see morale, dps bomb would be out of sync, would take setup and pumping to work around and counter with solar flare... that is no longer a issue. Destro don't get instant huge morale bomb which only exposed people's really weak positioning and counter play. (no resolute defence... can use CC or just side step... or even siphon heal bombs)

Offensively and defensively order is in a better place since these nerfs effect destro more... We was still beating premades on our order alts when they had morale bombs. Order is just overstacked on RDPS classes and lacks tanks... that is reason for disparity in overall %
Order's best can beat destro's and vice versa... it come down to pve most the time anyway, the balance between best compo's is pretty close and comes down to a mistake / good assist / who has the most filler/alts.

I think alot of people make mountains out of molehills... only can understand some slight gripes from people who play SW/Engi/WH/Magi/Welf... but some people manage to get them to work just they have tough competition from strong classes.
Also if you have good rng you can get more medals from losing than winning... and having sov doesn't automatically make you a better player, its mostly team setup and not being a weak link and pulling your own weight. (Doing the bare basics of your respective class role)

It is a organisational issue, and that is in player department not dev's... they don't chose if you pick Engi or tank...
Now if it was 80-90% vs 20-10% all the time then you either really really bad or there is a wider issue... but its not and there's so many variables in cities, time of day (lack of x y z core players/classes, lack of pops, people crashing, winning pve race by a few %)

Order players seem super emo despite things actually being improved for them... but people like to ignore the truth. If you RNG que you get RNG results ( i want to do it more tbh and suffer like others but atleast i get break from over the top organising )

Whats more concerning is the matchmaking and lack of pops when people are outside (i saw 47vs40 outside in those zones not get in... meanwhile only 10 order in altdorf one) but is how it is, golden age of city has been over for awhile. Maybe when we finish with our current destro and go back to order, having fresh challenges can make it more exciting again especially if they have improved.

Main campaign is the bread and butter, even if direction and changes lately as been a bit too zerg centric/friendly (morale nerf, malus reduction, no respawn in cannon hit keep) overall balance is way better than live's version of "balance".

[Foofmonger]

Marauder Monstro proc is honestly probably OP. You're talking about, I'm happy to.

I'd love to trade some value of Monstro proc for some mobility personally. The Marauder is too tanky and too slow at the moment. How bout nerf it down to 50% and give us shadowstep as 15 point ability in brut tree?

I've never ever had issues with mobility on mara. Charge and rootbreaker is all an MDPS should need. Since ASW doesn't have rootbreaker, it's fine for them to have the pounce. WL is... WL i guess. There is an art to movement that gets destroyed when adding more mobility.

The mobility issues are in comparison to other classes, , not to yourself. The reality is, 3 out of the 4 classes in this "mirror" get a mobility "jump skill" with the Mara being the only one who can't do that.

Why can't they do it? Because they are far tankier, which is balanced. Removing the tankiness without increasing the mobility is not a great idea to balance the realms or this particular mirror. What I am suggesting puts them more in line with the playstyle of the ASW/MSH/WL, and to stop being such an "outlier" that is balanced differently.

[Xergon]

The solution I’m seeing recommended here is a large scale rerolling on the order side to “meta” classes. That is a huge burden to bear for Order players. Especially with limited time and precious time invested in useless junk classes that you guys claim are destroying the game. This is literally what I’m hearing from the devs and the senior player base.
Too many order players picked bad classes or the wrong class and it’s dramatically effecting outcomes.

I’ve personally rerolled my WH to a WL. My WH was full Vanq and Genesis and Subj. The WL is 26/28 now. What a huge waste of time.

devs please SERIOUSLY consider applying a substantial catch up mechanic for the meta order classes if you are recommending a large scale movement of order to the meta classes. In both Xp/Rp and gearing.

Whats wrong about playing WH, if u love it u can make it work, u would only had to really try hard on it. Build 6man around it then merge with other 6mans or build Guild/WB around PUFF magic, can play class u love and win some/most cities.

But... no... lets go easy way, roll WL and still play solo? You think rolling WL will make difference in ur results in Cities if u still will do them solo? GL with that...

also very funny that just when i was reading this topic this happen:
https://clips.twitch.tv/OpenTastyGaurOSkomodo

[Elemint]

The mobility issues are in comparison to other classes, , not to yourself. The reality is, 3 out of the 4 classes in this "mirror" get a mobility "jump skill" with the Mara being the only one who can't do that.

Why can't they do it? Because they are far tankier, which is balanced. Removing the tankiness without increasing the mobility is not a great idea to balance the realms or this particular mirror. What I am suggesting puts them more in line with the playstyle of the ASW/MSH/WL, and to stop being such an "outlier" that is balanced differently.

ASW has only a 20s pounce, no charge, no rootbreaker. MSH has 10s pounce and 55s charge, but no rootbreaker. Mara has no pounce, charge, rootbreaker. It's the WL that's the outlier here.

[Duukar]

The solution I’m seeing recommended here is a large scale rerolling on the order side to “meta” classes. That is a huge burden to bear for Order players. Especially with limited time and precious time invested in useless junk classes that you guys claim are destroying the game. This is literally what I’m hearing from the devs and the senior player base.
Too many order players picked bad classes or the wrong class and it’s dramatically effecting outcomes.

I’ve personally rerolled my WH to a WL. My WH was full Vanq and Genesis and Subj. The WL is 26/28 now. What a huge waste of time.

devs please SERIOUSLY consider applying a substantial catch up mechanic for the meta order classes if you are recommending a large scale movement of order to the meta classes. In both Xp/Rp and gearing.

Whats wrong about playing WH, if u love it u can make it work, u would only had to really try hard on it. Build 6man around it then merge with other 6mans or build Guild/WB around PUFF magic, can play class u love and win some/most cities.

But... no... lets go easy way, roll WL and still play solo? You think rolling WL will make difference in ur results in Cities if u still will do them solo? GL with that...

also very funny that just when i was reading this topic this happen:
https://clips.twitch.tv/OpenTastyGaurOSkomodo

Dude. I’m in a good guild. Last 3 cities we played we won our instance. I would never solo queue city. I played my WH and did Ok.

Having played a WL to 26 I can very easily see how much more I can contribute to a city with a WL that I simply cannot do on a WH. It’s a really substantial difference. Literally night and day. So much more burst and mobility and survivability. Especially in the context of aoe death ball meta.

[wonshot]

I personally think part of the reason why it "feels" worse that a 60-40 winrate is because of how some Orderlings are manipulating the luxary possition of how you can pick your enemies.
As long as Tibdum and pugfriends keep taking one for the team and going in early instead of playing it smart and queueing late, to not get against TUP. The smarter Orderlings will spend the sweet lazy time and wait till more manageable known destro premades are in.

You search and see who is in from the top warbands, and depending on who you have in your order comp you try to target aim to go for a fight you find yourself more suited for.
"oh **** we got everyone on alts and have to fill 2parties with puggies, ok lets super late queue"
"oh we have people on mains and events event night, alright lets queue for the top3 destro and go early"
"oh its 5star and we are pussies, let's go late and be greedy"

You just dont see that culture on destro. They build, they queue and they fight.

I am to blame, because Im doing nothing to better the situation, my guild is to blame, and all of order is to blame for our culture. We have grown used to how it is and we are not trying to change it. Now do we have a problem with our orvr guilds not upprioritizing cities? Aboslutely, I personally lost interest for both the campaign and cities after I noticed ill never get my full 24stack in as I cant plan for when they happend. I attend when I can, I help guildies get their crests and hope they dont quit after they get some pieces. But yet till this day still never manged to queue with the same 23other guys for two instances, ever!.

If Order couldnt manipulate the instances like we are, I strongly suspect we would see the 80-20% winrates. The matter of a fact that Fenryls slashfive warband has been the best order-main force to fight, speaks volume for our realm. I even had periods of time in the past where I went and joined that to see the toptier citymeta, learn observe and experience how its done.

Solution for this? Well.. the yoloqueu instance1 puggies still get their crests while having no intention on improving. The guilds and premades are still struggling to even get their people online to put up a fight and will continue latequeueing, and in the middle there are all the decent fights who we dont menion. The close ones, both sides having pugfill, 300 to 150 kill instances where people enjoy themselves no matter who PVE's down the lord in stage3 faster.
The devs can throw buffs towards the overrepresented order-pug classes, stop enemies from searching for guildtags for enemyrealm, or do something to the matchmaking. But the mentality of Order still remains, and will still be the issue.