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City Winner History?

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Foofmonger
Posts: 520

Re: City Winner History?

Post#231 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm

nuadarstark wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:04 pm
Foofmonger wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:58 pm
One thing I think it's important for everyone to note is: The city design was never supposed to be like it is intentionally.

Initially, Mythic's vision for Warhammer Online was "massive city sieges" a la Forts. However, due to the technology of the time, they just couldn't get it to work. Remember, cities weren't even in the game at launch in 2008.

So, when Mythic finally released the city content, the community back then was very annoyed at the "bait and switch". This content was never supposed to be 24v24 instances, it was supposed to be a "grand epic battle" but Mythic couldn't get their architecture to support this and the 24v24 instances were effectively the best band-aid they could slap onto their City System.

So the city system in this game has never been good. It started out poor and remained poor throughout the lifecycle of the game, and now that the content is re-introduced to this private server, we see the issues with Mythic's original design. As I mentioned above, the devs are trying to think of ways to help alleviate some of Mythic's original design issues (as they have stated), but we should all have a firm understanding of what the city was, what it is, and what it should have been. This city system was never ideal.
This again is very much the case. That's why we're weeving to bit of a pointless discussion here at this point - the reasonable, measured people who want to stay objective will see the issues, as do the devs from what we saw in the discussion here. The rest here is just flinging mud on the other side, which is not exactly productive.
Indeed, I think we're too worried about balancing a broken system, instead of making the system better/more enjoyable for the playerbase. Making the city more accessible, allowing players to gear up without doing the city, etc... w/e the devs want to do.

It's also an issue with "end game content" in and of itself in the MMO genre. Whatever is the "end game" becomes the "most important" generally speaking. Prior to city, Forts were the most important, so strategies that involved winning forts (of which Order is good at), were dominant. Now, forts are no longer end game and nobody cares about Fort strategies except "how do they lead to the city", i.e. the "real end game". Whenever you place a new "end game" in an MMO, that will become the most important content in the minds of the playerbase, because that's how they can achieve their power fantasies.
Last edited by Foofmonger on Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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gurtuk
Game Master
Posts: 152

Re: City Winner History?

Post#232 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm

Once you guys get more coordinated you won't lose so much, and I mean coordinated as a whole. destro usually has 5-6 coordinated warbands talking to each other through region chat or discord. I mean yeah there are random zerg players on both sides but I've played both sides and I've just seen much more coordination on destro. maybe EU time has all the coordination. It's just the truth guys, you need a hard pill to swallow to get better.
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nuadarstark
Posts: 153

Re: City Winner History?

Post#233 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:10 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm
Once you guys get more coordinated you won't lose so much, and I mean coordinated as a whole. destro usually has 5-6 coordinated warbands talking to each other through region chat or discord. I mean yeah there are random zerg players on both sides but I've played both sides and I've just seen much more coordination on destro. maybe EU time has all the coordination. It's just the truth guys, you need a hard pill to swallow to get better.
It's not really a hard pill to swallow, when we know that's an issue we need to solve. We literally spent last 24ish pages discussing it here, among other things. Every reasonable Order-centric person in this thread will tell you they know Order needs to get more organised and coordinated.

There will ofc still be other issues, like the ones we again already discussed here in 24 pages, but it will help the faction for sure.
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sogeou
Posts: 264

Re: City Winner History?

Post#234 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:32 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm
Once you guys get more coordinated you won't lose so much, and I mean coordinated as a whole. destro usually has 5-6 coordinated warbands talking to each other through region chat or discord. I mean yeah there are random zerg players on both sides but I've played both sides and I've just seen much more coordination on destro. maybe EU time has all the coordination. It's just the truth guys, you need a hard pill to swallow to get better.
The problem is Destro's zerg with 2 to 1 odds at night. It has nothing to do with Coordination. Not much to do when it is 240 to 130 and they can run into postern. Just remove the big ram then people can defend the lord room like mythic had intended. Or turn up the keep lord damage to ala Torq times.

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empmoz
Posts: 79

Re: City Winner History?

Post#235 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:38 pm

Valarion wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:17 pm
We need to man it up on the Order side, coordinate and win. I certainly do NOT want any help from anyone and I dont give a F if I have to reroll to do it. Fortunately, I can say this because I already have 8 viable meta alts to play.

We have the tools to dominate, we have done it before and will do it again.
I think this is what Order needs most; also the desire to fight even if you know you will lose.

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gurtuk
Game Master
Posts: 152

Re: City Winner History?

Post#236 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:39 pm

sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:32 pm
gurtuk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm
Once you guys get more coordinated you won't lose so much, and I mean coordinated as a whole. destro usually has 5-6 coordinated warbands talking to each other through region chat or discord. I mean yeah there are random zerg players on both sides but I've played both sides and I've just seen much more coordination on destro. maybe EU time has all the coordination. It's just the truth guys, you need a hard pill to swallow to get better.
The problem is Destro's zerg with 2 to 1 odds at night. It has nothing to do with Coordination. Not much to do when it is 240 to 130 and they can run into postern. Just remove the big ram then people can defend the lord room like mythic had intended. Or turn up the keep lord damage to ala Torq times.
It has everything to do with coordination, and no we don't double your numbers every night. take last night for example; it was about 45:55. whoever wipes who usually has the winning numbers after the wipe. But order still had right around 20% less than us in most of the main zones. order wipes us all the time when we have many more than them, you guys just need to follow up after you wipe us and push hard. I see a lot of instances where order wipes destro in a zone then does NOTHING. It's completely about coordination.
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juzziex
Posts: 4

Re: City Winner History?

Post#237 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:46 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm
Once you guys get more coordinated you won't lose so much, and I mean coordinated as a whole. destro usually has 5-6 coordinated warbands talking to each other through region chat or discord. I mean yeah there are random zerg players on both sides but I've played both sides and I've just seen much more coordination on destro. maybe EU time has all the coordination. It's just the truth guys, you need a hard pill to swallow to get better.
Maybe order just need a WL or something who puts in a lot of effort to co ordinate the pugs or something huh?

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Alfa1986
Posts: 438

Re: City Winner History?

Post#238 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:14 pm

Draugris wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:56 pm
Alfa1986 wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:40 pm
2. Destro has more hardcore guilds, which are also organized among themselves into an alliance.
I really don´t know what should be "hardcore" about them. Any guild calling itself "hardcore" and is taking that seriously would play there where the challenge is, would like to be the underdog, would like to fight outnumbered :lol: no mate, they are just after easy win´s. And to make them feel better they come here and tell some fairy tales :roll: .
dozn't matter), the order has no and this)
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sogeou
Posts: 264

Re: City Winner History?

Post#239 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:27 pm

gurtuk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:39 pm
sogeou wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:32 pm
gurtuk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:06 pm
Once you guys get more coordinated you won't lose so much, and I mean coordinated as a whole. destro usually has 5-6 coordinated warbands talking to each other through region chat or discord. I mean yeah there are random zerg players on both sides but I've played both sides and I've just seen much more coordination on destro. maybe EU time has all the coordination. It's just the truth guys, you need a hard pill to swallow to get better.
The problem is Destro's zerg with 2 to 1 odds at night. It has nothing to do with Coordination. Not much to do when it is 240 to 130 and they can run into postern. Just remove the big ram then people can defend the lord room like mythic had intended. Or turn up the keep lord damage to ala Torq times.
It has everything to do with coordination, and no we don't double your numbers every night. take last night for example; it was about 45:55. whoever wipes who usually has the winning numbers after the wipe. But order still had right around 20% less than us in most of the main zones. order wipes us all the time when we have many more than them, you guys just need to follow up after you wipe us and push hard. I see a lot of instances where order wipes destro in a zone then does NOTHING. It's completely about coordination.

Last 3 nights before that was not the case. It was pretty much 2 to 1 the whole night. There needs to be a wounds debuff for AAO.

Fenris78
Posts: 158

Re: City Winner History?

Post#240 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:28 pm

Anyway, when you have literally 25% of a realm's classes that are useless/unwanted in endgame content, the underlying problem is not population distribution or player organisational abilities... and need to be adressed in some fashion BEFORE inciting people to play in a certain way (ie, city sc).

ALL classes should be able to fit, at least remotely, in ANY 2-2-2 composition. If you can't achieve that by balancing toolsets, there will always be severe imbalances impairing fun from players.
Obviously, we can't perfectly mirror and balance everything, so dispredancies and uniqueness should remain to be fun, but it's not desireable to discourage so much people from getting endgame gear, without much side options...

Recent changes on crests drop is helping, but it's IMO not enough to compensate the atrocious experience some classes have to endure in cities.

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