Recent Topics

Ads

City Winner History?

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Vandoles
Posts: 248

Re: City Winner History?

Post#561 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:00 am

Kaelang wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:58 am
Vandoles wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:18 am
gurtuk wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 am
Play how you want, but city sieges are meant to be competitive. Don't come on the forums complaining when you all know why you lose city's. I don't care how you play. City's are supposed to be difficult, and if you "play how you want" you lose. without coordination and competence when you're up against 12/24 other people you'll get stomped. It happens both ways.
So if I should do what I'm supposed to do and not play how I want, I should stop playing video games and go read a book, do some work, clean the house, right?
I normally wouldn't jump in - but this analogy is ridiculous.

Do you read a book by starting half way through, then going to the start to read the end shortly after? Do you clean the house by first messing everything up? Do you start your workday by having a nap?

If you want to do what you want, do what you want - but don't expect the ideal result.
You completely missed my point. In a very big way.

My point was that this is a video game. If I have to do it properly, I should be doing efficient things that make sense, not wasting time trying to have fun in a video game. Which isn't fun because I should do it properly, not how I want.

Not sure how you got "I like doing things inefficiently and badly" from that

Oh yeh, and most importaly - if I'm looking for the ideal result in a video game, it's to have fun doing what I want. Therefore doing what I want leading to a non-ideal result removes the entire point of playing a video game, no?

Ads
User avatar
Kaelang
Bugtracker Manager
Posts: 903

Re: City Winner History?

Post#562 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:05 am

Vandoles wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:00 am
Kaelang wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:58 am
Vandoles wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:18 am


So if I should do what I'm supposed to do and not play how I want, I should stop playing video games and go read a book, do some work, clean the house, right?
I normally wouldn't jump in - but this analogy is ridiculous.

Do you read a book by starting half way through, then going to the start to read the end shortly after? Do you clean the house by first messing everything up? Do you start your workday by having a nap?

If you want to do what you want, do what you want - but don't expect the ideal result.
You completely missed my point. In a very big way.

My point was that this is a video game. If I have to do it properly, I should be doing efficient things that make sense, not wasting time trying to have fun in a video game. Which isn't fun because I should do it properly, not how I want.

Not sure how you got "I like doing things inefficiently and badly" from that

Oh yeh, and most importaly - if I'm looking for the ideal result in a video game, it's to have fun doing what I want. Therefore doing what I want leading to a non-ideal result removes the entire point of playing a video game, no?
I don't actually think I did. You're saying that you want to do things your way, and have fun doing them - which is absolutely fine. But what you're also saying is that the ideal and efficient way to do things, isn't necessarily fun for you. In which instance - you won't want to do them in that way - which again, is fine. However the point Gorbane was making is, you need to be grouping up and working as a team - and your initial response to such claim was in the region of you not having fun doing that as this isn't playing how you want to.

My response to that stands as - don't expect the best response from performing the task inefficiently.
Bugs are like Pokémon - Gotta catch em all.

Fancy helping me become the very best, like no BT Manager ever was? Submit your bugs to the tracker and follow the format. If you've found a shiny (exploit), PM's or Discord please.

ActAppalled
Posts: 20

Re: City Winner History?

Post#563 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:13 am

gurtuk wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:41 pm
It has everything to do with being organised and coordinated, some order warbands almost never lose city's. you know why? because they're good. order loses a lot because they just aren't coordinated, very mindless. then they come here and complain. don't blame anyone but yourself.
Which Order warbands are those exactly? I've played with a few of the top order guilds and have access to their discords and they all lose a lot, the only one that might be true for is NGE (but I don't have that data and unlike the destro only posters here I don't just assume and make facts up in my head).
Since we can't always guarantee our best players and best people online due to the different timings of cities even tryhard organised Order WBs lose because Destro has the more viable classes (for city) and easier to pull off synergy than Order, and that is reflected in the results. It is extremely presumptous and insulting to assume the extremely one sided loss rate of Order is only due to organisation when I know a lot of people on Order (including myself) who do try and organise, run drills, practice together etc ...
There are only so many solo quers and "unwanted" classes, they can't skew the results that badly, also keep in mind there are plenty of bad unorganised Destro players too (we have versed many of them, and they should offset this too) yet the score is always ranging from very skewed to extremely skewed in destro favour at the end of city.

I have played both sides (started on Destro, changed to Order when my friends left and people were giving me crap for being a Magus in city), due to everyone trying to get into cities you get people taking almost anyone on destro (as long as it's 2/2/2) but that works out much better because a no effort melee destro ball with more viable classes will always beat the order equivalent. Yes organised order can win and do, but boy do we have to try much harder and play better to overcome the inherent destro advantage in city i.e it's just not balanced and many order that DO oragnise have expressed this in this thread only to get ignored.

But naaah you're probably right as a Destro only playing person with obviously no bias whatsoever ... it's a gene thing, if you're a good player your subconcious makes you roll Destro, all Destro are superior galaxy brain gods while Order players are just all bad and in your own words "mindless", it makes perfect sense ....

Vandoles
Posts: 248

Re: City Winner History?

Post#564 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:22 am

Kaelang wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:05 am
Vandoles wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:00 am
Kaelang wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:58 am


I normally wouldn't jump in - but this analogy is ridiculous.

Do you read a book by starting half way through, then going to the start to read the end shortly after? Do you clean the house by first messing everything up? Do you start your workday by having a nap?

If you want to do what you want, do what you want - but don't expect the ideal result.
You completely missed my point. In a very big way.

My point was that this is a video game. If I have to do it properly, I should be doing efficient things that make sense, not wasting time trying to have fun in a video game. Which isn't fun because I should do it properly, not how I want.

Not sure how you got "I like doing things inefficiently and badly" from that

Oh yeh, and most importaly - if I'm looking for the ideal result in a video game, it's to have fun doing what I want. Therefore doing what I want leading to a non-ideal result removes the entire point of playing a video game, no?
I don't actually think I did. You're saying that you want to do things your way, and have fun doing them - which is absolutely fine. But what you're also saying is that the ideal and efficient way to do things, isn't necessarily fun for you. In which instance - you won't want to do them in that way - which again, is fine. However the point Gorbane was making is, you need to be grouping up and working as a team - and your initial response to such claim was in the region of you not having fun doing that as this isn't playing how you want to.

My response to that stands as - don't expect the best response from performing the task inefficiently.
Yes you're still missing the point entirely. My response to Gorbane was not at all about the fact that I want to have fun playing how I want. My response was that at the point where a VIDEO GAME becomes a job to be done correctly or not at all, one should stop and do actual real life things that provide actual rewards.

Here's the kicker - I care 0 about being rewarded for playing badly. About getting that "best response" you mention. I care about enjoying my time doing so, as this is, as I mentioned a video game. At the moment, I am able to sit around in a city pug, getting farmed and get my gear. I do actually get a good response from playing the way I want. But I do not enjoy myself, because I will either sit and wait it out until the end, or reroll one of several meta classes and play them "correctly".

This is not about some freak minority here, nor am I crying about being a special snowflake - I'm also not talking about some niche way of playing the game - as classes like SW, WH, engi are not meta and 2h tanks are in a bad shape on order, have they disappeared? Or are they still everywhere? Pray tell, do you honestly think people roll a WARRIOR priest to be a mobile turret dispensing aspirine to all surrounding allies? SWORDmaster to have a tiny sword to poke people awake when you put them to sleep with your main weapon, the shield? I can go on.

I'm talking entirely and completely about the FUN of the game and not at all the rewards I get. Or the balance - I actually believe RoR is fantastically balanced and likely quite order biased in terms of sheer class balance. However, in terms of enjoyability, destro outshines order significantly.

Geometric
Suspended
Posts: 9

Re: City Winner History?

Post#565 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:34 am

How's the KotBS coming along, Gorbane?

Mordd
Posts: 117

Re: City Winner History?

Post#566 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:06 am

Order just need to stop Queuing to be farmed as cattle until changes are made. Destro cant have cities to farm if Order stops allowing them selves to be farmed. I have stopped doing cities completely until changes are made and its been great for my mood.

If they refuse to fix it, just dont play that content.

User avatar
Charon
Posts: 191

Re: City Winner History?

Post#567 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:45 am

Mordd wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:06 am
Order just need to stop Queuing to be farmed as cattle until changes are made. Destro cant have cities to farm if Order stops allowing them selves to be farmed. I have stopped doing cities completely until changes are made and its been great for my mood.

If they refuse to fix it, just dont play that content.
There wont be any changes ...dont you reed what was posted. This is completly players issue - ror cities are perfectly balanced content ...80 % of order population is whining ........... Its funy.. this Gorbane statment about this mistical order guild...(at which point of city timer they queue i want to know maybe) expres all. Is even more interesting that destro players which xrealm starts to see that something is wrong here. Data, information, experience dont not matter. Mentality of 'sieged castle' is prevailing. More order is trying to underline the problem more disavow they recive in return. So mate xrealm. Push when destro is pushing for Aldorf... and push when destro is pushing for IC....etc or make some break is summer time, isn't it. Maybe in autumn some destro guild will transfer for good becouse boredom and will be interested in changes, maybe there will be new content, maybe in next 6 months no one will care about cities like for forts ... i hope so
Karak Azgal - Haron WP
Karak Norn - Haeroon KoTBS
RoR - Nogrun - I love the smell of napalm in the morning
Chaeron - Bladesinger

User avatar
Alfa1986
Posts: 438

Re: City Winner History?

Post#568 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:37 am

wanna know why when the order will buffed, no significant changes not happen? I'm telling you, because almost all competent organized wbs will run over to the order side, and you get exactly the same situation only turned on 180 °.
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

Ads
User avatar
Ramlaen
Posts: 92

Re: City Winner History?

Post#569 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:10 am

Alfa1986 wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:37 am
wanna know why when the order will buffed, no significant changes not happen? I'm telling you, because almost all competent organized wbs will run over to the order side, and you get exactly the same situation only turned on 180 °.
If equalizing CC abilities or class synergy swings the city win rate so much that Order starts winning ~75% of cities then yeah I can see what you suggest happening.
Ramlaen, Longhaul, Wolfnrock, Grashop

User avatar
Spellbound
Posts: 74

Re: City Winner History?

Post#570 » Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:15 am

gurtuk wrote:
Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 am
Play how you want, but city sieges are meant to be competitive. Don't come on the forums complaining when you all know why you lose city's. I don't care how you play. City's are supposed to be difficult, and if you "play how you want" you lose. without coordination and competence when you're up against 12/24 other people you'll get stomped. It happens both ways.
I’ve played in nothing but competent/top WBs LBL, NGE (once) and KoO alliance WBs in cities on this server. It’s a myth and crutch argument for dedicated destro players that order isn’t organized. We do a perfect 2/2/2, similar AoE meatball setup if choose to and still can be a 50/50 win/loss. However Order start handicapped and have to play, coordinate and try harder to eek out a win unless it’s against a complete PUG.

Half our guild is playing Destro now and it’s amazingly laughable how overtuned Marauders are and synergy w Choppas.

Do you not see why most WBs are bringing 3-4 marauders now? It’s not a fluke or organization thing when they used to bring Choppas instead before the marauder damage buff.

SW get a buff and immediately get damage tuned down. Marauders get a overtuned buff and are allowed to keep it. White Lions as the counterpart will never beat Marauder in AoE damage due to the tuning. Heck Slayers and other BWs can’t keep up.

Destro mirror counterpart just have better abilities/tactics for a tight 24v24 arena. Marauder is just overtuned like MSH. If Mara and mSH did the same melee range damage as WL/SH, you’ll only see 1 of each in a WB on Destro side.

Doesn’t take much to look at damage logs internally and data rather than have players post excel spreadsheets or screenshots on various things.

I see Gravord has been forming Order WBs for cities and losing them for most part and players are enjoying that as it’s proving the point. How long before they go back to Destro and pretend it didn’t happen?

I pulled up the last 5 24 v 24 organized cities score screenshot and pretty much just see marauders flooded at or near the top even if we win or lose. Their damage wasn’t meant to surpass every class with all the utility they already have. WL aren’t even close and near the bottom.

Marauders are supposed to be utility DPS, not glass cannon DPS with all the utility too. Few of top TUP marauders have mentioned as well on the overtuning along with alliance mates playing there. I don't see how this can pass for so long.

- 200 HP per second proc from monstro 25% chance on hit
- Ignore all incoming armor pen (Comparable to morale level of abilities like Misdirection in terms of value or Distracting Bellow) but with 100% uptime vs Morale level uptime
- Aoe knockdown, Aoe interrupt, Ap drain, Morale blocker, Weaponskill + initiave debuff aoe
- Mobility of charge, snare breaker, single target pull
- Damage and tactics able to stay top damage dealer in most instances while being such a meta class with no downside to stacking the class

Yes, Destro is organized in stacking one broken class at the moment that has utility and top dmg. Data has been posted, shared and will not post private messages from marauders that know it's overtuned. If they want to leave things as is, so be it, it's their game and vision. Nothing else can be said and done from this end.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... ty-dps.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... ty-dps.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... ty-dps.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... ra_009.jpg
Last edited by Spellbound on Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], CombatPanda, fixer2050, Rekrim and 46 guests