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City Winner History?

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Naelar
Posts: 51

Re: City Winner History?

Post#471 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:01 pm

Mordd wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:11 am
CountTalabecland wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:26 pm
Spoiler:
Mordd wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:18 am


right over your head. The comment was about those being acceptable decent classes in destro, but the order side is just bad.
Its more complicated than that when it comes to balance. Shaman and SH are both quite a bit better than their mirrors, Magus is solid in low numbers and WE is in the same boat as WH but has far easier target selection due to the squish most Order plays. But, yes, if you are playing Order right now the solution is not to play the overplayed and underpowered SW, WH, heal AM, and role something that hasn't been ruined or made useless or is spammed by smooth brained bots like Engi.
So the solution isnt that they should balance the damn game, and make the order classes as viable as the destro clases. But that order should all reroll to the few acceptable classes order can play. I really wish they would nerf your classes so i could return the favor and just tell you that you have to reroll and acceptable class.
Or you could play a class that's actually needed (tank) instead of bringing another goddamn engineer to the fight.

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Mordd
Posts: 82

Re: City Winner History?

Post#472 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:18 pm

Naelar wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:01 pm
Mordd wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:11 am
CountTalabecland wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:26 pm
Spoiler:
Its more complicated than that when it comes to balance. Shaman and SH are both quite a bit better than their mirrors, Magus is solid in low numbers and WE is in the same boat as WH but has far easier target selection due to the squish most Order plays. But, yes, if you are playing Order right now the solution is not to play the overplayed and underpowered SW, WH, heal AM, and role something that hasn't been ruined or made useless or is spammed by smooth brained bots like Engi.
So the solution isnt that they should balance the damn game, and make the order classes as viable as the destro clases. But that order should all reroll to the few acceptable classes order can play. I really wish they would nerf your classes so i could return the favor and just tell you that you have to reroll and acceptable class.
Or you could play a class that's actually needed (tank) instead of bringing another goddamn engineer to the fight.
And again you ignore the point. A magus is ok to bring, an engie, not really. The magus with the insta pull in combination with Destros much more effective melee ball works. A melee squig or even a few is good. A shamm with its far better survivablity works.

Omegus
Posts: 414

Re: City Winner History?

Post#473 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:26 pm

Mordd wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:18 pm
And again you ignore the point. A magus is ok to bring, an engie, not really.
There are top order city WBs bringing an Engi.
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mytreds
Posts: 125

Re: City Winner History?

Post#474 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:48 pm

No top order wbs take engies.

Some people organize groups with hairbrained comps. But no serious wb takes engie. And when they do, it’s solely for signal flare, not because he can spam one key and do massive AoE damage or use an insta-pull like the magus.

Remember engies deal corporeal damage, a type of damage that is mitigated by nearly 100% by every class. What damage does magi do again? Oh right....

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mytreds
Posts: 125

Re: City Winner History?

Post#475 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:49 pm

Naelar wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:01 pm
Mordd wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:11 am
CountTalabecland wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:26 pm
Spoiler:
Its more complicated than that when it comes to balance. Shaman and SH are both quite a bit better than their mirrors, Magus is solid in low numbers and WE is in the same boat as WH but has far easier target selection due to the squish most Order plays. But, yes, if you are playing Order right now the solution is not to play the overplayed and underpowered SW, WH, heal AM, and role something that hasn't been ruined or made useless or is spammed by smooth brained bots like Engi.
So the solution isnt that they should balance the damn game, and make the order classes as viable as the destro clases. But that order should all reroll to the few acceptable classes order can play. I really wish they would nerf your classes so i could return the favor and just tell you that you have to reroll and acceptable class.
Or you could play a class that's actually needed (tank) instead of bringing another goddamn engineer to the fight.
All organized wbs take tanks, yet they still lack the damage and utility of ALL Destro tanks. Especially in the morale department.

Omegus
Posts: 414

Re: City Winner History?

Post#476 » Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:49 pm

mytreds wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:48 pm
But no serious wb takes engie. And when they do
Nice contradiction. And I didn't say they were taken for damage. This is one of those times where sometimes you need to change spec. Signal flare on stage 2 or stage 3 is a game changer. Piece defenses is great. Magnet - even with an extra delay - is good. Ranged AOE disorients are great. Can you stack them? No, but bringing 1 is definitely not a waste if specced and played right.
Remember engies deal corporeal damage, a type of damage that is mitigated by nearly 100% by every class.
Corporeal damage is mitigated exactly the same as spirit damage. I think you meant to say physical damage and that applies to the Engi's single target / gun tree only. And this is not a Magus vs Engineer discussion, as order cannot take a Magus.
mytreds wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:49 pm
All organized wbs take tanks, yet they still lack the damage and utility of ALL Destro tanks. Especially in the morale department.
Well, most tank M1s are either root or armour debuff and M2 will likely be distracting bellow unless doing something very specific (incoming heal increaser on champion chosen, flight on SM when being a **** to healers or trying to catch up to a WL, etc), so we're really talking about M3 or M4 here. At which point you need to ask: what is better than No Escape and Solar Flare?

Out of all the things to specifically call out, destro tanks having better morales was not a good choice. Yes BOs and Chosens can self pump if using a shield but the options they get off it aren't as good as an AM-pumped Knight. Back when mass morale damage drops were a thing this was different but the morale meta has shifted dramatically over the past few weeks away from such things.
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Foofmonger
Posts: 421

Re: City Winner History?

Post#477 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:01 am

mytreds wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:48 pm
No top order wbs take engies.
This is just wrong, there's plenty of screenshot evidence that says otherwise. How would you know unless you play with every single other guild and group on the server?

Remember, your opinions come from your own perspectives. Just because people who win cities with engies don't play with you doesn't mean they don't exist.

Order and Destro will both take exactly 1 Magus and 1 Engie in some comps. These classes bring enough utility where they can both be worth a spot. Magus is probably a lil better than Engie overall but these are not dramatically different classes in design.

User avatar
Detangler
Posts: 395

Re: City Winner History?

Post#478 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:26 am

Defeatism on Order side seems to be growing. Used to be i'd get rough fights every city instance. Now it seems the vast majority aren't even trying to build anything remotely balanced, "cause we'll just lose anyways." If something doesn't change, every city winrate is gonna be 70/30 soon cause of all the Order solo queuers who can't be bothered to respec out of a DPS AM to something useful....
Detangler - 40 DoK armor talisman farmer
Deetangler - 40/82 Chosen tankbot/murdermachine
Deeetangler - 40/6x Zealot healbot/talisman factory
Detanglerr - 40/xx Witch Elf boredom killer
Deetsquiggy - 40/x Squig butcherbot
Tanglers - baby Swordmaster

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Martok
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Re: City Winner History?

Post#479 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:29 am

What?

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Rasenmeister
Posts: 10
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Re: City Winner History?

Post#480 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:37 am

fun fix
when you kill enemy throuch barier - you die instant.
but nowm when i see 1-8 to destro (15 instants) - this is not solution of problem
=FMJ= Tristarix/Urgolf

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