Percieved Bias and Game Balancing

[Detangler]

-A marauder monstro tuning was definitely needed. Not sure if it was necessary to go this far as to a complete reversion, but we will see how it plays out.

-Destro for sure throws, they just don't advertise in chat (gee, why is it im one of only 3 tanks holding main door in this fort?)

-2/4 Destro mdps options seem to be quite a bit tankier than Order side possibilities. Probably should look into that part if you wanna balance melee meta cities first.

-The demoralizing cycle and defeatism for sure contributes to the "why bother" lack of organization on Order for cities and the high number of imbalanced instances that I run into. Probably should look at those numbers before deciding if Order truly is up against a steep wall when balancing the sides.

-Class balance distribution for sure contributes to lack of available tanks/healers for all instances of Order cities. Its been proven in threads long past that there' like twice as many rdps and half the tanks as a % of population for Order v Destro. All those leftover engineers that love to sit on walls and pew pew all day have to go somewhere when cities pop. Maybe take that into consideration as well when you look at overall win rates.

My only suggestion for Order balancing: give Shadow warriors meaningful defense bonuses in assault stance on par w mSH. Give them a 3rd option for stackable viable mdps like Destro and youll see more wins and a more even city record.

[sjemen]

or maybe don't balance the whole game around an instance that happens twice a day just because you decided to gate the best gear behind it.

[raistomen]

"developers said that once they were happy with the balance of shadow warrior they would apply a similar process to squig herder"
So have the developers said they are happy with the balance now?

"WLs still topping dps charts .5+1 mil + any equal geared destro player"
Well....I've got screen shots from a game a few weeks back, where a Mara did 4.2m top damage in city, next highest was a MSH at 2.3m, then another Mara. Whats your point? Every game is different?

present

[Gurf]

My experience in City in both pug and premade is that it became boring quickly playing on Order as most Des premades just group up in a melee ball, CC you , pull you, interrupt you and aoe you to death with you barely having the chance to do anything, aoe damage killing you stupidly quickly. It wasn't like you always felt you were being outplayed or outsmarted by people who had worked on their team play for months on end (like you occasionally do in scenarios), you just felt like you are beaten by very easy tactics and setups that any group of Des players thrown in together could pull off as long as they have enemy addon and Discord. After a while you just going in half interested and just play around and wait for your bags

This is exactly the same for destro, it's KoTBS, slayer, BW and WP. Big bomb group.

I'm sure its similar, except imagine if BW and Slayer also had excellent aoe CC , survivability and aoe interrupts combined with their top damage, hence the Devs needing to look at Mara.

Also imagine if Order could add in SW to the aoe damage and cc bomb in the way MSH can contribute, you would melt that extra bit faster... hence the Devs looking at SW fixes before moving on to SH who already has a very good end game build.

I wouldn't say either issue is an indication of bias, rather prioritising what needs to be done first to try balance the game.

Lots of people seem to be moaning about them nerfing Mara ahead of doing SH buffs, I expect that is because Mara change is probably a few small tweaks to code calculations whereas SH changes are likely much more difficult, as shown when the Dev's were trying to improve SW its a much bigger job and harder to get right.

[aardvak001]

Also imagine if Order could add in SW to the aoe damage and cc bomb in the way MSH can contribute, you would melt that extra bit faster... hence the Devs looking at SW fixes before moving on to SH who already has a very good end game build.

You of course realise that MSH almost never sees play in organised groups. However I'm not here to argue for specific balance points.

I'd be interested to hear your experience of how organised order are, specifically around city time. Because if my friend's 20% is in any way accurate, then buffs or nerfs based on city winrate is entirely wrong.

[Sundowner]

You of course realise that MSH almost never sees play in organised groups. However I'm not here to argue for specific balance points.

????????? are u okay?

[agemennon675]

Also imagine if Order could add in SW to the aoe damage and cc bomb in the way MSH can contribute, you would melt that extra bit faster... hence the Devs looking at SW fixes before moving on to SH who already has a very good end game build.

You of course realise that MSH almost never sees play in organised groups. However I'm not here to argue for specific balance points.

I'd be interested to hear your experience of how organised order are, specifically around city time. Because if my friend's 20% is in any way accurate, then buffs or nerfs based on city winrate is entirely wrong.

Why would you not bring a MSH lol

[aardvak001]

Also imagine if Order could add in SW to the aoe damage and cc bomb in the way MSH can contribute, you would melt that extra bit faster... hence the Devs looking at SW fixes before moving on to SH who already has a very good end game build.

You of course realise that MSH almost never sees play in organised groups. However I'm not here to argue for specific balance points.

I'd be interested to hear your experience of how organised order are, specifically around city time. Because if my friend's 20% is in any way accurate, then buffs or nerfs based on city winrate is entirely wrong.

Why would you not bring a MSH lol

maybe it's the groups im with, who knows, but generally marauders, choppas and the occasional dps DoK tend to get Mdps slots. I'm not saying MSH is bad, i'm just saying you dont see anywhere as many of them as mara/choppa

[agemennon675]

You of course realise that MSH almost never sees play in organised groups. However I'm not here to argue for specific balance points.

I'd be interested to hear your experience of how organised order are, specifically around city time. Because if my friend's 20% is in any way accurate, then buffs or nerfs based on city winrate is entirely wrong.

Why would you not bring a MSH lol

maybe it's the groups im with, who knows, but generally marauders, choppas and the occasional dps DoK tend to get Mdps slots. I'm not saying MSH is bad, i'm just saying you dont see anywhere as many of them as mara/choppa

You should almost always bring MSH to your warband play be it in city or rvr, 1 or more simply because/cd increaser/aoe/mobility/surviability/

[Niall]

I couldn't agree more with the topic starter.

Look, the main reason for those changes is not about truly class balance. What devs are carrying about - "is the fact there is a huge destruction imbalance in population, and also in win rate. Order morale has hit an all-time low" (c) Kaelang - that what they try to fix by ability changes, the population balance.

But this is like looking for the lost keys at night under the street lamp not because it was lost there (it was lost in some other place), but because there is a light - so it's easy to search (the process), but not to find (the result).

So it's almost officially: Order is outnumbered and most probably has a lack of skillful players and organized groups. But what devs are expecting to achieve with all of those ability changes? Do they expect part of Destro players to reroll onto the Order side? Or do they expect to achieve that even low skilled disorganized outnumbered Order players to kill the great amount of organized Destro groups? How far is needed to ruin balance to let this happen?

Also the cherry-on-the-cake question: why nobody spoke about population imbalance and hurried up with balance changes in spring, while order zerg made all zones blue with no chances and IC burned even worse then Altdorf now for like 2 months or more?

I really strongly agree with the topic-started suggestion to Devs. I really want to see classes be really balanced and equal, as well as queues and bugs to be fixed. Trying to satisfy only one side just because the whining is really bad idea. I want in-game challenges due to I fight against skillful players, not because their mirror classes are let's say "more equal" than yours.

Fighting for social effects (minor justice) by core changes (major injustice) rather looks like the SJW approach, which leads to nowhere.