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New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

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DiMakss
Posts: 62

New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#1 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:19 am

Starting with the patch that removed the respawn from the keeps, 99% of the keeps are completely empty, the attackers just come, lazily and long attacking the door, lazily and long killing the lord, lazily running to capture the flags. Keeps are just a way to delay the fort and the city. Isn't that so?

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GamesBond
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Posts: 244

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#2 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:32 am

The issue here are two points of view, both equally strong:

1. New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses.

2. Spawning in keeps killed progression.

I believe there's still a middle ground to be found, but regarding the spawn specifically, it's either pleasing A or B, never both.

Some players were having a single zone battle of several hours, before we were even fighting in zones for 8 hours and sometimes half a day in a single zone. These players were not getting any progress done.

You should account for both perspectives.
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lyncher12
Posts: 184

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#3 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:48 am

DiMakss wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:19 am
Starting with the patch that removed the respawn from the keeps, 99% of the keeps are completely empty, the attackers just come, lazily and long attacking the door, lazily and long killing the lord, lazily running to capture the flags. Keeps are just a way to delay the fort and the city. Isn't that so?
Yes, however by defending you are just delaying the inevitable (city). Everyone has to log out eventually and it makes for a poor system because its stalemate during the day and then +80 or more attackers steamrolling zones later on.

Zymer
Posts: 29

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#4 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:32 am

There were a bunch of keep defenses throughout this weekend, including today. Playing on Order I both defended keeps and got wiped multiple times.

nuadarstark
Posts: 151

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#5 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:48 am

In prime time it works fine, aside from very obvious pop differences whenever one side has advantage (not saying it's purposeful xrealming, been actually keeping track of server pop and it's roughly balanced with members of the loosing side mostly indling in IC or Dorf). There you can have solid battles, defend keeps, push out, get keeps to 3 stars, etc.

But in those 80 vs 40 TZs, it gets really tedious if you actually want to defend. Late NA times see campaign get breezed through extremelly fast without any hitches or interesting battles.
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Nosun
Posts: 67

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#6 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:45 am

I would agree with the above that during the several hours of what is EU prime time zones and sieges still work like they should and you will actually see things defended but the rest of the time nothing is defended at all. Basically if u log onto destro you are pretty much just going to be trying to do enough for a bag roll because they are so traumatized by the fact order has the zerg right now there is a lot of them just crying in chat and afking in the warcamp.
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HammerGuy
Posts: 6

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#7 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:02 pm

The change has made it nigh impossible to be more than a speed bump on the way to the city if you don't have decent numbers. With just a few groups guarding the posterns you effectively shut the keep to anyone who wants to defend it.

Why not tie the ability to respawn at the keep to the rank of the keep? As an example, at rank 0 you do not spawn at the keep no matter where you die. At rank 1 you can respawn at the keep as long as the inner door is not hit. Then at rank 3 you can respawn at the keep even if the inner is tagged. I like the idea of making ranks matter more.

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Naelar
Posts: 75

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#8 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:10 pm

GamesBond wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:32 am
Spoiler:
The issue here are two points of view, both equally strong:

1. New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses.

2. Spawning in keeps killed progression.

I believe there's still a middle ground to be found, but regarding the spawn specifically, it's either pleasing A or B, never both.

Some players were having a single zone battle of several hours, before we were even fighting in zones for 8 hours and sometimes half a day in a single zone. These players were not getting any progress done.

You should account for both perspectives.
Has any discussion been had about something in between how it is now and how it was? Say, you can respawn at the keep until the door is below X% (50? 75, perhaps?) That would seem to allow a bit more robust defense without making things the clogged toilet they used to be at times.

Also like Hammer's idea of making keep ranks matter for respawning.

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GamesBond
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Posts: 244

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#9 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:40 pm

Posting it in the Suggestions section with a detailed explanation is the best thing you can do, as it allows everyone to deeply consider the idea.

As a personal opinion, I believe the idea is nice but should be reverted: Zero star keeps only have respawns and once the outer gate is below 50% the respawn is removed. As the more stars you get, the harder the keep gets to be infiltrated. This way keeps can be easily populated, but defending it remains hard as failing to funnel will cost the defenders many lives. It will also give them a strategic option to retreat to inner early. But at least, you can populate keeps fast until the gate hits 49%.
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Rydiak
Posts: 419

Re: New spawn mechanic killed keeps defenses

Post#10 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:47 pm

I like the idea of respawns in keep stopping when outer gate is damaged, but I'd prefer if that threshold was variable based on keep rank instead of fixed at 99%.
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