About the WH/WE changes

[elykz]

This is a constructive criticism attempt about the latest WH/WE changes.

First of all, a little context, so that you don't get me wrong:
- I'm spending most of my time healing WE/WH in duo/trio group
- Usually buffs to WE/WH benefit me, so im not here to whine about a class getting buffed
- I'm generally happy about the recent changes to the game (especially the contrib changes), and not in the "everything is bad" mood.

However, i have a few concerns about the latest changes:

1) The breaking changes (which i assume to be a bug).

The most breaking change since the patch is probably a bug (i assume it will be fixed in a hotfix soon?).

Since the change, it is now impossible for a healer to heal someone that is stealthed (no hot/cleanse/direct heal working).
When you do, you receive a "you cannot see target" message

It means no pre-hotting WE/WH possible when they are on stealth, weither it is the "normal" stealth or
their temporary stealth ability. In both case, this is an extremely annoying.

In that regard, the bug/changes is de-facto a pretty big nerf to these classes, which i assume is totally unintended.
It is also extremely annoying from the healers perspective, it feels "buggy", as it is the only cases in game where you cannot
heal friendly targets (with clunky animations not consistent with what really occurs)

2) The stealth duration changes

I see good intents behind those changes, but think this is going in the wrong direction.

WE/WH always were a high risk/high reward class. The fast paced alternance of "safe" stealthed periods and
"dangerous" out of stealth periods were one of the key elements that made that stealth class unique, compared
to other mmorpg out there. Alternances between being the hunter and the prey.

This was also a key element to the fun of playing and fighting the class. The kind of issue that cannot be seen at
first but might be damaging to the game in the long run.

The changes, by increasing by default duration of the stealth in a pretty massive way is kinda turning it into an almost
perma-stealth mechanics, which totally negates that part of the gameplay

It also raises all kind of weird issues, with ap buffs, etc, which are prolly too hard to fix without breaking more things.

I think that change should be reverted. I understand the wish for a longer stealth duration, but giving it by default,
on any stealth attempts is spoiling part of the fun. If your intention is to give WH/WE a way to stay sometimes a bit longer
in stealth, why not restore the 30sec cd, but give an WE/WH an ability usable in stealth with pretty long CD (lets say 3-5mins CD)
increasing stealth duration for something between 15-30 sec ?
It would allow WE/WH using it to sneak in further on demand, occasionally, without making it the default mechanism.

3) The cool things

On a more positive note, i think that new anti-rez ability is a pretty cool idea, giving WH/WE some new unique features consistent
with their role. I assume it will require some tuning over time, but but props about that, very interesting idea !

4) A crazy suggestion from my WE/WH friends

Ok, this is not the main purpose of this thread (as this is maybe a bad idea?), but as it was suggested to me,
if you are looking for some other crazy suggestions about WE/WH changes that could be consistent with their role, as agile single target assassins:
What about giving them an ability (on pretty long CD too, prolly a few mins) giving allowing them for 3-7sec to bypass
collisions with other players, allowing them to move with agility through the crowd and find their targets more easily ?
I suppose it would have some value in the current blob/aoe meta, and add more value to the class in siege-like mechanics.


This is it Thank you for reading so far

[Amran]

Let me guess you play shadow warrior?

[abezverkhiy]

He said he was a healer. Don’t you read?

[abezverkhiy]

Suggestion number 4... What situation do you have in mind? Passing through the wall of tanks to kill one or two casters during keep siege? But you have plenty of other enemies around and they will stomp you. Cannot think of the use for such skill tbh

[plazaridis]

For WH/WE my suggestions are:
1.Immune to Challenge as an ability, tactic whatever, better placed in the Suffering/Judgment (explore their lore you may see why)
2.Move morale 3 Parry/critical to a lower number, make us usefull in parties/wbs
3.(It saounds like RP) 10% more on incoming healing fron DoK/WP

Just some suggestions after all these years as a WE. tyvm

[Brickson]

Spoiler:

This is a constructive criticism attempt about the latest WH/WE changes.

First of all, a little context, so that you don't get me wrong:
- I'm spending most of my time healing WE/WH in duo/trio group
- Usually buffs to WE/WH benefit me, so im not here to whine about a class getting buffed
- I'm generally happy about the recent changes to the game (especially the contrib changes), and not in the "everything is bad" mood.

However, i have a few concerns about the latest changes:

1) The breaking changes (which i assume to be a bug).

The most breaking change since the patch is probably a bug (i assume it will be fixed in a hotfix soon?).

Since the change, it is now impossible for a healer to heal someone that is stealthed (no hot/cleanse/direct heal working).
When you do, you receive a "you cannot see target" message

It means no pre-hotting WE/WH possible when they are on stealth, weither it is the "normal" stealth or
their temporary stealth ability. In both case, this is an extremely annoying.

In that regard, the bug/changes is de-facto a pretty big nerf to these classes, which i assume is totally unintended.
It is also extremely annoying from the healers perspective, it feels "buggy", as it is the only cases in game where you cannot
heal friendly targets (with clunky animations not consistent with what really occurs)

2) The stealth duration changes

I see good intents behind those changes, but think this is going in the wrong direction.

WE/WH always were a high risk/high reward class. The fast paced alternance of "safe" stealthed periods and
"dangerous" out of stealth periods were one of the key elements that made that stealth class unique, compared
to other mmorpg out there. Alternances between being the hunter and the prey.

This was also a key element to the fun of playing and fighting the class. The kind of issue that cannot be seen at
first but might be damaging to the game in the long run.

The changes, by increasing by default duration of the stealth in a pretty massive way is kinda turning it into an almost
perma-stealth mechanics, which totally negates that part of the gameplay

It also raises all kind of weird issues, with ap buffs, etc, which are prolly too hard to fix without breaking more things.

I think that change should be reverted. I understand the wish for a longer stealth duration, but giving it by default,
on any stealth attempts is spoiling part of the fun. If your intention is to give WH/WE a way to stay sometimes a bit longer
in stealth, why not restore the 30sec cd, but give an WE/WH an ability usable in stealth with pretty long CD (lets say 3-5mins CD)
increasing stealth duration for something between 15-30 sec ?
It would allow WE/WH using it to sneak in further on demand, occasionally, without making it the default mechanism.

3) The cool things

On a more positive note, i think that new anti-rez ability is a pretty cool idea, giving WH/WE some new unique features consistent
with their role. I assume it will require some tuning over time, but but props about that, very interesting idea !

4) A crazy suggestion from my WE/WH friends

Ok, this is not the main purpose of this thread (as this is maybe a bad idea?), but as it was suggested to me,
if you are looking for some other crazy suggestions about WE/WH changes that could be consistent with their role, as agile single target assassins:
What about giving them an ability (on pretty long CD too, prolly a few mins) giving allowing them for 3-7sec to bypass
collisions with other players, allowing them to move with agility through the crowd and find their targets more easily ?
I suppose it would have some value in the current blob/aoe meta, and add more value to the class in siege-like mechanics.


This is it Thank you for reading so far

1) Sounds like a bug since the patch notes didn't say anything in this regard.

2) Getting into stealth during fights can still be tricky because of its long cast time and people can still detect you through collision or having high initiative. Since you can not know, if someone has initiative stacked and will see you, passing by enemies is still risky. I've been detected and attacked in stealth several times before and after the patch just because someone had high enough initiative and was able to see me. Especially getting up to the enemy oil room during a siege can feel like a gamble because you have to closely pass by a lot of players.
So far the longer stealth mostly helped me in two situations: Getting into keeps and hiding from groups of destros that wanted to hunt me down while I was solo roaming. Usually they spread out to catch me when stealth runs out. That's a bit easier to avoid now. In both situation it's a welcome qol improvement for me and I don't think that this is messing with the "high risk/high reward" playstyle which people like to associate with WH/WE (although the "high reward" part is still questionable).

4) One use of such a skill could be to easily tag the lord of a keep. I don't think that this would be a good idea, since it would take one option to defend against taging away.

[Machiara]

Alternative take:

The new WH/WE stealth changes make the class SO much more fun. Please don't change them!

[abezverkhiy]

Also, it worth noting that WH have only one tactic that gives +STR while other DPS have two - e.g. Slayers have one with +STR and other with +STR/WS -TOU. Same with engies - one tactic gives +BS, another gives +BS/WS -TOU.

Movement too could be improved. By either giving Slayer's Charge! or by shortening cooldowns on oils to 30 secs (other relics too)

Relics - 2 of them give good utility, but relic from Inquisition is rubbish - 50% armor ignore on tanks is meh cause they are thick bastards, 50% on clothies - meh too because they are squishy anyway. But if that relic would allow to ignore (or partially ignore) block and absorb - it would be awesome.

[Arcrival]

There is still a cool down for stealth.
WH/WE have high risk the high reward not so much with all the armor sets defense ac resists increases over time there has not been a match in offense so the classes are really weaker. I got heals yesterday in stealth so not sure what happened there. The new ability is neat I just like the fact it erects a cross on the corpse the cast time is a little long imo and the no res is suited for small scale and ranked more than applying it in the middle of the grinder

[Krima]

Very hard to land the no rez with 2 sec cast time..Range should be 20 to 30ft IMO