Recent Topics

Ads

Official stance on stacking buffs / debuffs?

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

kaloel
Posts: 16

Official stance on stacking buffs / debuffs?

Post#1 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:53 pm

I've been looking for a long time for an adequate up to date answer for the question "what should stack?". What I've generally found as an answer:
Movement speed, wounds and heal DEbuffs do not stack; at all. (heal buffs do stack)
Nothing stacks with itself. (6x Focused Mending is still 15%)
For everything else:
Azarael wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:25 pm
[MAX (Ability / Potion) ]
+
[MAX (Morale)]
+
[SUM (Tactic)]
+
[SUM (Career Mechanic, Heaven's Blade, Daemonic Armor, Flak Jacket)]
The last part seems to be exceptions, for skills that would be useless if they didn't stack, thus they were allowed to stack with everything.
Is there a list containing all of these intentional exceptions?
This seems to apply to buffs and debuffs in the same way. BUT:
What if a tactic changes an ability?
E.g. Big Brawlin' (BO), Focused Mending (KotBS), there are about a dozen of these tactics per side. Does this count as a tactic, since without it it would not have the effect OR does it count as ability, as it is still an ability that applies it?
Based on testing these tactics are split about 50/50, so there is no telling what is intentional, and it is really annoying to test all these by myself...

It would be really useful to have an "official" response, to allow us to make more meaningful bug reports. Because right now its anyone's guess what the intended exceptions are, and what the correct stacking rules are...
PS: Would be great to have something in the wiki about this. That can be updated if it changes, so we don't get the monthly 10 page question thread "Does a stack with b?".

Ads
User avatar
Manatikik
Posts: 1194

Re: Official stance on stacking buffs / debuffs?

Post#2 » Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:09 pm

You can only have one buff of the same kind per source (ability, tactic, morale, career).

Ability buffs are anything a skill gives you, potion, or item proc; so you could have a BS potion, RP/Z buff, and a Conqueror BS proc on SW/SH/Eng but only the highest value will count. Things like RP/Z stat buff and SM/BO stat steal count as ability and not career.

So on destro Cutting Claw and Wot Armor armor debuff don’t stack but Cutting Claw and Demo Strike/Zealot M1 do stack to significantly lower armor values.

Certain tactics that add a debuff to something add a secondary Tactic debuff and some just add it to the skill so it counts as ability not tactic source (examples on order are Overpowering Swing on Knight or Vindication on WH).

There are also several outliers that do not follow this rule set due to balance such as Wrist Slash tactic on SW does not stack with other sources on the debuff portion (but it does stack on the buff portion).

It’s sometimes rare to find a way to meaningfully stack all three sources together due to this (or good example is SW with crit stacking; you can get 5% from a link, 20% from a tactic, and 12% from Sov proc).
<Montague><Capulet>

kaloel
Posts: 16

Re: Official stance on stacking buffs / debuffs?

Post#3 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:24 am

Manatikik wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:09 pm
You can only have one buff of the same kind per source (ability, tactic, morale, career).

Ability buffs are anything a skill gives you, potion, or item proc; so you could have a BS potion, RP/Z buff, and a Conqueror BS proc on SW/SH/Eng but only the highest value will count. Things like RP/Z stat buff and SM/BO stat steal count as ability and not career.

It’s sometimes rare to find a way to meaningfully stack all three sources together due to this (or good example is SW with crit stacking; you can get 5% from a link, 20% from a tactic, and 12% from Sov proc).
Shouldn't the liniment crit (potion) not stack with the 12% sov proc, based on your explanation of what should stack? Both should be counted as abilities, right?

User avatar
Manatikik
Posts: 1194

Re: Official stance on stacking buffs / debuffs?

Post#4 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 11:47 am

kaloel wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:24 am
Manatikik wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:09 pm
You can only have one buff of the same kind per source (ability, tactic, morale, career).

Ability buffs are anything a skill gives you, potion, or item proc; so you could have a BS potion, RP/Z buff, and a Conqueror BS proc on SW/SH/Eng but only the highest value will count. Things like RP/Z stat buff and SM/BO stat steal count as ability and not career.

It’s sometimes rare to find a way to meaningfully stack all three sources together due to this (or good example is SW with crit stacking; you can get 5% from a link, 20% from a tactic, and 12% from Sov proc).
Shouldn't the liniment crit (potion) not stack with the 12% sov proc, based on your explanation of what should stack? Both should be counted as abilities, right?

Yes, I misspoke. What I was meaning to say was the 5% from skirm stance stacks with the other two sources (the BS from the lini stacks with BS with Scout BS and MA+IA).
<Montague><Capulet>

kaloel
Posts: 16

Re: Official stance on stacking buffs / debuffs?

Post#5 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:12 pm

Okay, so the stance does not count as an ability, but as a career mechanic, right? (Because abilities would not stack with potions/abilities, so its not an ability. And it obviously is not a morale or tactic.)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Hardkoar, Plopo, sk4Ld, sullemunk and 18 guests