Recent Topics

Ads

Toughness damage reduction

Let's talk about... everything else
User avatar
Toggle
Posts: 286

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#21 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:29 pm

Omegus wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:58 pm Ignore all the stuff about toughness mitigation caps; it no longer applies and a lot of the advice given at the time was incorrect anyway.

The relevant Strength/Ballistic Skil/Intelligence stat (and the matching Power stat) contribute towards attack damage. Before the bonus damage provided by those stats is calculated, they are first reduced by the defender's Toughness. What's left is then used to calculate the bonus damage. The scaling for this varies from ability to ability, with some bonus damage types getting no bonus at all. 1000 strength vs 500 toughness is the same as 500 strength vs 0 toughness.

And yes, if the defender's toughness is higher then it would result in a damage penalty rather than a damage boost.
Think it’s worth it to stack on anything other than tanks and possibly shaman?
Shaman - 40/8X
Zealot - 40/8X [Retired]
AM - 40/8X
RP - 40/7X [Retired]

Ads
User avatar
anarchypark
Posts: 2073

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#22 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:40 pm

don't necro 1 year old outdated information.
SM8, SW8, AM8, WL7, KoBS5, BW5, WP8, WH7, IB7, Eng5, RP5, SL6
BG8, Sorc8, DoK8, WE7, Chs8, Mg8, Ze7, Mara8, BO6, SH7, Shm5, Chop4
SC summary - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20415
( last update : 2020.06.09)

User avatar
Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#23 » Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:43 pm

I am desperately trying to work out a viable toughness build for the Zealot that doesn't lose everything else. Sadly due to Warlord having +armour as the 4pc trying to mix warlord and invader (4pc each) isn't possible, and mising invader and conq is just terrible. The ranked sets don't have a toughness set bonus either. I need to spend more time mixing sets to see if I can get something useful out of it. In order to get the 4pc invader bonus and some form of heal crit bonus I'll need to do 4pc and 5pc which I believe is only possible with the ranked sets as their ring is slot 3.

Some solo dps builds are combining toughness with regen, no idea how effective it is.
Zomega: RR8x Zealot

User avatar
tazdingo
Posts: 1199

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#24 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:54 am

Toggle wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:29 pm Think it’s worth it to stack on anything other than tanks and possibly shaman?

magus and mara can sorta do it for solo specs, the sweet spot where it becomes useful is 700/800. i think some choppas used to do it but its outdated now. the idea is you either go hard or ignore it completely, having a middling amount of toughness achieves nothing. i see a lot of bis mdps running around with <100

User avatar
Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#25 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:40 am

tazdingo wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:54 am
Toggle wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:29 pm Think it’s worth it to stack on anything other than tanks and possibly shaman?

magus and mara can sorta do it for solo specs, the sweet spot where it becomes useful is 700/800. i think some choppas used to do it but its outdated now. the idea is you either go hard or ignore it completely, having a middling amount of toughness achieves nothing. i see a lot of bis mdps running around with <100
Choppas/slayers haven't been doing it since live afaik. RoR version of the class is entirely dependant on weaponskill, so we don't have a luxury of investing into toughness
I tried it in the past in pre-invader era but could only get to around 450 toughness comfortably, still felt like i was losing more than gaining.
Maybe with def Sov it could be better, but then again we're in era of even higher armor values so missing out on weaponskill will cost you even more damage loss.

Prime dps class option for toughness builds right now is a Witch Elf, since they dont need weaponskill and can get sufficient damage output from procs & Witchbrew
Orkni 85+ (in-game Grock is not me...)
Image

User avatar
inoeth
Suspended
Posts: 513

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#26 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:23 am

does anyone have formulas for dmg mitigation of armour and toughness? what is worth more now?

User avatar
tazdingo
Posts: 1199

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#27 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:09 pm

Grock wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 7:40 am Choppas/slayers haven't been doing it since live afaik. RoR version of the class is entirely dependant on weaponskill, so we don't have a luxury of investing into toughness
I tried it in the past in pre-invader era but could only get to around 450 toughness comfortably, still felt like i was losing more than gaining.
Maybe with def Sov it could be better, but then again we're in era of even higher armor values so missing out on weaponskill will cost you even more damage loss.

Prime dps class option for toughness builds right now is a Witch Elf, since they dont need weaponskill and can get sufficient damage output from procs & Witchbrew

yeah i guess the bonuses don't rly favor it anymore
if you wanna get stupid about it go bg, vanq/sov/tri + the right build and youre hardcapped whilst debuffed. actually teaches you a lot about the stat, many 0 dmg dots but slayer and wl still hit like a truck. WH is also relatively unaffected. i like to think of toughness as the stat that allows you to basically ignore ranged aoe spam

User avatar
daje88
Posts: 49

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#28 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:41 am

inoeth wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:23 am does anyone have formulas for dmg mitigation of armour and toughness? what is worth more now?
Fenris78 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:46 am The mitigation sequence is as follow :

Toughness > Absorb > Dmg multipliers (crits and dmg reduction in %) > Armor / Magic resist > Guard

Toughness and absorb are efficient by reducing the damage part wich will crit, but will not completely avoid critical hits unless you absorb the whole damage (where the remaining damage is zero, thus cannot crit), but they cut off damage by a fixed amount (the main stat contribution to damage is equally neutered by same amount of toughness), while armor and resistances will cut remaining damage by a percentage.
Then the effective damage is applied to you, or split in half and applied (without further mitigation) to you and your guard.
Spoiler:
Image

Ads
User avatar
zarlemagne
Posts: 41

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#29 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:01 pm

yvandureve02200 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:28 pm Even with all the explainations i have seen on this forum, i don't clearly understand how Toughness work.

Is it a raw damage reduction ? Like "Spell should do 100 dmg, i have 90 dmg reduction due to my toughness, the spell do 10dmg to me" or there is more deep mechanics not explained in the character sheet ?
Like most things how much toughness helps is complicated :D
This is the way I understand it works (thou it's a bit simplified and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong as a lot of this is from live)

First Some Equations /groan

Base Ability Damage (BAD) = (BasD + DBon)
  • BasD - is the ability base damage (this based of attackers lvl and number of mastery points in that abilties path
  • DBon - Is where Toughness comes in, attacker gets bonus damage based on

DBon = ((MStat + PStat - Toughness)/5) * cast time
  • MStat - is abilities main stat, i.e. str/int/bs (these soft cap at 1050)
  • PStat - is a bonus due to the respective power stat, i.e. melee power or magic power (200-300 isn't uncommon)
  • Toughness - not 100% sure if this is currently capped at 75% of (MStat + PStat), but believe it is.
  • Cast time - Abilities base cast time (i.e. 3 for Doombolt) and I believe this classed as 1 for abilities with a cast time less than 1s (i.e. instants).

Final Damage = BAD * (AMult - DMult)
  • AMult - is the %age increase from Offensive Stats/Abilities (i.e. from Slayer rage mechanic)
  • DMult) - is the %age decrease from Defensive Stats/Abilities (i.e. from armour).

Attackers can reduce or even ignore Armour, whilst toughness can only be reduced.
How much milage you can get from each one is totally dependent on your class and spec.

But as a general "Rule of Thumb" the more armour my char has the more I prefer toughness as a defensive stat
Last edited by zarlemagne on Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yvandureve02200
Posts: 11

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#30 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:17 pm

zarlemagne wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:01 pm
yvandureve02200 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 1:28 pm Even with all the explainations i have seen on this forum, i don't clearly understand how Toughness work.

Is it a raw damage reduction ? Like "Spell should do 100 dmg, i have 90 dmg reduction due to my toughness, the spell do 10dmg to me" or there is more deep mechanics not explained in the character sheet ?
Like most things how much toughness helps is complicated :D
This is the way I understand it works (thou it's a bit simplified and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong as a lot of this is from live)

First Some Equations /groan

Base Ability Damage (BAD) = (BasD + DBon)
  • BasD - is the ability base damage (this based of attackers lvl and number of mastery points in that abilties path
  • DBon - Is where Toughness comes in, attacker gets bonus damage based on

DBon = ((MStat + PStat - Toughness)/5) * cast time
  • MStat - is abilities main stat, i.e. str/int/bs (these soft cap at 1050)
  • PStat - is a bonus due to the respective power stat, i.e. melee power or magic power (200-300 isn't uncommon)
  • Toughness - not 100% sure if this is currently capped at 75% of (MStat + PStat), but believe it is.
  • Cast time - Abilities base cast time (i.e. 3 for Doombolt) and I believe this classed as 1 for abilities with a cast time less than 1s (i.e. instants).

Final Damage = BAD * (AMult - DMult)
  • AMult - is the %age increase from Offensive Stats/Abilities (i.e. from Slayer rage mechanic)
  • DMult) - is the %age decrease from Defensive Stats/Abilities (i.e. from armour).

Attackers can reduce or even ignore Armour, whilst toughness can only be reduced.
How much milage you can get from each one is totally dependent on your class and spec.
Thanks for your reply, if ur right, this is clear for me.

Now the question is, 75% cap or not ?

Cause if, have more than 750 toughness is pure waste

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot] and 40 guests