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Toughness damage reduction

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zarlemagne
Posts: 41

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#31 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:30 pm

yvandureve02200 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:17 pm
Thanks for your reply, if ur right, this is clear for me.

Now the question is, 75% cap or not ?

Cause if, have more than 750 toughness is pure waste
Your forgetting Power (PStat).

My Sorc can easily get 1050 int and 200+ Magic Power, so totals out at about 1250+

75% of 1250 is 937.5 Toughness

Whether it's better to go for other stats over the extra 200 toughness will depend how you want to play.
Only you can decide this.

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Grock
Posts: 918

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#32 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:38 pm

zarlemagne wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:01 pm
  • Cast time - Abilities base cast time (i.e. 3 for Doombolt) and I believe this classed as 1 for abilities with a cast time less than 1s (i.e. instants).
Its 1.5 for instant casts and 1s casts

yvandureve02200 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:17 pm Thanks for your reply, if ur right, this is clear for me.

Now the question is, 75% cap or not ?

Cause if, have more than 750 toughness is pure waste
The cap is no longer working since a year ago

But even when it worked afaik the 75% was supposed to refer to ability's base damage and not the stat contribution, so the cap was only really relevant when being hit by enemies with very very low mainstat.
That said though i never personally tested it if it did work like that.
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ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#33 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:12 pm

Seems like a lot of folks do not know that the power stat comes after toughness in the formula... I’d like to know where people just pull random numbers from tbh. Melee/magic/ranged power cuts right through toughness, and that is why +300 power builds are popular. Say for instance you have 1k str. You hit someone with 500 toughness, you have now 500 str on this target, now add your 200-300 melee power. Please stop spreading misinformation about power

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Rydiak
Posts: 770

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#34 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:58 pm

ashton007 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:12 pm Seems like a lot of folks do not know that the power stat comes after toughness in the formula... I’d like to know where people just pull random numbers from tbh. Melee/magic/ranged power cuts right through toughness, and that is why +300 power builds are popular. Say for instance you have 1k str. You hit someone with 500 toughness, you have now 500 str on this target, now add your 200-300 melee power. Please stop spreading misinformation about power
Power is functionally equivalent to MainStat, and is calculated in the same line of the equation with MainStat and Toughness variables. If you have 1000 Strength and 300 Melee Power, and the enemy has 500 Toughness, you have 800 contributing stats adding bonus damage to the base damage of the attack you are using.
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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#35 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:30 pm

ashton007 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:12 pm Seems like a lot of folks do not know that the power stat comes after toughness in the formula... I’d like to know where people just pull random numbers from tbh. Melee/magic/ranged power cuts right through toughness, and that is why +300 power builds are popular. Say for instance you have 1k str. You hit someone with 500 toughness, you have now 500 str on this target, now add your 200-300 melee power. Please stop spreading misinformation about power
Where is the misinformation about the power stat?

Strength - Toughness + Power is the same as Strength + Power - Toughness...
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ashton007
Posts: 380

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#36 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:26 pm

Omegus wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:30 pm
ashton007 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:12 pm Seems like a lot of folks do not know that the power stat comes after toughness in the formula... I’d like to know where people just pull random numbers from tbh. Melee/magic/ranged power cuts right through toughness, and that is why +300 power builds are popular. Say for instance you have 1k str. You hit someone with 500 toughness, you have now 500 str on this target, now add your 200-300 melee power. Please stop spreading misinformation about power
Where is the misinformation about the power stat?

Strength - Toughness + Power is the same as Strength + Power - Toughness...
It’s the way people treat/word it like it’s str/bs/int, it’s better than the main stats in itself. It cannot be de-buffed and it comes after toughness in the actual formula. While you’re right about the math there.

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#37 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 5:39 pm

ashton007 wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:26 pm
Omegus wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:30 pm
ashton007 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:12 pm Seems like a lot of folks do not know that the power stat comes after toughness in the formula... I’d like to know where people just pull random numbers from tbh. Melee/magic/ranged power cuts right through toughness, and that is why +300 power builds are popular. Say for instance you have 1k str. You hit someone with 500 toughness, you have now 500 str on this target, now add your 200-300 melee power. Please stop spreading misinformation about power
Where is the misinformation about the power stat?

Strength - Toughness + Power is the same as Strength + Power - Toughness...
It’s the way people treat/word it like it’s str/bs/int, it’s better than the main stats in itself. It cannot be de-buffed and it comes after toughness in the actual formula. While you’re right about the math there.
Hi, only str/bs/int plays a role in the hit calculation:
def stat (WS/ini/wp) / attack stat (str/bs/int) * 7.5

Generally the target you are attacking won't have above 200-300 of the def stat, meaning after about 650 of str/bs/int all you really want is more dmg, power stats usually comes in 1.5x their equivalent so are often the better choice, not really anything to do with the toughness calculation (except that more is better).
But if you have the option of 1 str or 1 power always take str until softcap.
Another nice break point (aside from +650) is 920-970 as buffs will often take you to the softcap, obviously on classes that hit +1050 easy, you can go there to counter debuffs with buffs to always remain at least at softcap.
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Omegus
Posts: 1373

Re: Toughness damage reduction

Post#38 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:22 pm

ashton007 wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:26 pmIt’s the way people treat/word it like it’s str/bs/int, it’s better than the main stats in itself. It cannot be de-buffed and it comes after toughness in the actual formula. While you’re right about the math there.
But for the purposes of calculating damage, the 3 power stats are identical to strength, ballistic skill and intelligence. Those 3 power stats only exist to let you keep increasing your damage without also increasing your parry/dodge/disrput strike-through which the 3 primary stats also do as well as increasing your damage. Stacking the power stat is strictly worse than stacking the primary stat unless you are soft-capped. If soft-capped then to max out damage you should start stacking power, however it is also a legitimate choice to overstack the primary stat (especially if its strength which has a load of debuffs) to counter debuffs, although this does result in a tiny bit of a dps loss.

In terms of the formula, power is not after toughness either. On your character sheet for the types of attack - melee, ranged and magic - there is an entry named "Damage Bonus", which shows a "DPS" bonus. That "DPS" bonus is made up of a "DPS" bonus from the primary stat (Stat / 5) added to a "DPS" bonus from the power stat (Stat / 5). On the main stat window if you mouse-over the Toughness there is a similar "DPS Reduction" which is Toughness / 5 (I don't think the secondary stat of Fortude - basically Toughness Power - is in the game yet?).

In the combat formula, it these total "DPS" and total "Reduction to DPS" values which are used.

Base Ability Damage + ((DPS Bonus - Reduction to DPS) * Ability Multiplier)

Where the ability multiplier is typically the maximum value out of the GCD and the cast time, but it is often tweaked to be a lower value for AOE and for DoTs, with AoE DoTs being the most hit.

The primary stat, the power stat and toughness are all factored into the damage formula in the same step.
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