Fort Tracker One Week In

[Rekoom]

We don't need to buff Destro's mindless aoe capability to be on par with Order just to have more successful fort defenses. We need to nerf keep defense in general, if possible.

IMO damage is not the issue but, as a couple posters (and myself) have noticed, healing is just so much easier on Order.

I don't think Destro has any real issue in the lakes. The reason why you see so little Destro out these days or in large WBs trying to take keeps is because what's the point? You will hit the fort brick wall head on anyway so might as well have fun small scale roaming and enjoy the game with your mates instead of trying to contribute to a campaign you already know you will lose (yes, it is a self realizing prophecy but what can you do?).

Improving the survivability of Destro in funnel situations could go a long way imo and please don't mention some quirky M4s combinations or whatever when Order has the capability out-of-the-box.

[Rapzel]

We don't need to buff Destro's mindless aoe capability to be on par with Order just to have more successful fort defenses. We need to nerf keep defense in general, if possible.

One side has 93%+ win rate in fort attacks, other side has 41%, is the fort system bad or is one faction bad?

[Orgruk]

One side has 93%+ win rate in fort attacks, other side has 41%, is the fort system bad or is one faction bad?

Or maybe the class balance is bad due to the class population/numbers ? i.e : melting inside a forto or a keep as a melee and out of LOS due to heavy rain of fire, grenades, broadhead arrows, etc. still being able to hit/tick.

[emiliorv]

It's not hard to realize why the population of the forts is becoming more one-sided. Why would destro keep showing up to "guarunteed" losses. As I type this destro are losing fort that they cant even fill while order has full fort + 40 in queue. It will just get worse and worse. Also loving the comments that boil down to "lol l2p, destro classes are actually more op" or "yeah but destro win cities so its ok".

Add the broken contribution system....last 2 forts i played (like 1 month ago) got no medals for low contribution...dunno why, i was healing as always, probably not enough contribution while being stomped.

Why try to defend when you have a 92-93% lose ratio and also dont get enough contribution to reach the "loser reward"...its a 1h of waste time with no fun and also no reward.

[nuadarstark]

Well, cause that way you're never gonna get to that sweet 5 star Dorf...

But in all seriousness, I get the rut, I do. I was in it 6 months ago when Order was getting zerged everywhere and we were having 2-15 loses in every city siege. For months. Was that fun? No. Were we told to "git gut" and get more organised? We did. Do I have this perverse feeling of comeuppance in the back of my mind. I can't lie here, I kinda do.

I've done few fort defenses on Destro recently with my old Chosen and no one is even trying unless you have FMJ or VII in the house. No organisation, no coordination, random 6-man groups everywhere, people in speccs not wanted in that type of content, entire warbands **** off and leaving after first push cause "they don't want to drop royal shards to Order". I also did one of the famed destro double fort pushes and people started leaving the first pushed fort before we even got to stage 3, moving to second and promptly losing it. Chat that day was throwing the blame on that entire thing on 1 known engi in the fort that was apparently so leet he was killing all 160 people all the time...

Destro was having issues taking forts vs determined defenders before, but even if there is a nerf to rdps AoE damage (which would have enormous impact everywhere, not only in sieges - on oRvR destro generally doesn't perform as horrid, cities are completely balanced now), it's not gonna solve the organisation problems, which is the issue Destro has right now when it comes to your general non-guild event oRvR.

[emiliorv]

But in all seriousness, I get the rut, I do. I was in it 6 months ago when Order was getting zerged everywhere and we were having 2-15 loses in every city siege. For months. Was that fun? No. Were we told to "git gut" and get more organised? We did.

City is a WB VS WB SC where you can choose your teammates, how the hell can compare fort to cities?? can i choose the other 150 (120 or whatever numbers are allowed in forts now) teammates?? NOOOO I CANT

Anyways, that "destro win more cities = destro OP" mantra was being repeated since january and provoked multiple nerfs to "balance" factions...we are talking about a 70% winrate in cities to destro...in forts its a 92% winrate to order, lets see how "balance" works in this direction.

[Gurf]

We don't need to buff Destro's mindless aoe capability to be on par with Order just to have more successful fort defenses. We need to nerf keep defense in general, if possible.

IMO damage is not the issue but, as a couple posters (and myself) have noticed, healing is just so much easier on Order.

I don't think Destro has any real issue in the lakes. The reason why you see so little Destro out these days or in large WBs trying to take keeps is because what's the point? You will hit the fort brick wall head on anyway so might as well have fun small scale roaming and enjoy the game with your mates instead of trying to contribute to a campaign you already know you will lose (yes, it is a self realizing prophecy but what can you do?).

Improving the survivability of Destro in funnel situations could go a long way imo and please don't mention some quirky M4s combinations or whatever when Order has the capability out-of-the-box.

Destro has no problem with healing in other areas like Scenarios and City, there is almost no difference between the healing potential of the healers except WP has a tactic which increases heal by 20% on a defence, while DOK has tactic which increases heal by 20% (ST) when crit attack, obviously the WP is better in keep and fort situation but its only triggered on disrupt so isn't always going to be up when you need it and certainly isn't up 100% of the time, it isn't like all healers are WP so the differences in healing is not huge. Both sides tanks have the same M4 Immaculate defence which is what most tanks use, so not sure what out-the-box combination Order has which is so good? Chosen has heal debuff aura and backlash aura, so whatever you say about KOBS is it isn't like Chosen brings nothing to the table to counter that.

If your Zealots and Shammy are using Focus mind on push they are the ones who are going to a good amount of the funnel push healing. But if all your Shammy are spec for DPS then that isn't going to work. I have both RP and WP lvl 40 and on Fort and keep push I much prefer my RP as with double ap regain I can spam group healing even through focus mind barely running out of ap, while the WP is already out of Fury, which is exactly the same as what Zealot can do.

[Rapzel]

Well, cause that way you're never gonna get to that sweet 5 star Dorf...

But in all seriousness, I get the rut, I do. I was in it 6 months ago when Order was getting zerged everywhere and we were having 2-15 loses in every city siege. For months. Was that fun? No. Were we told to "git gut" and get more organised? We did. Do I have this perverse feeling of comeuppance in the back of my mind. I can't lie here, I kinda do.

I've done few fort defenses on Destro recently with my old Chosen and no one is even trying unless you have FMJ or VII in the house. No organisation, no coordination, random 6-man groups everywhere, people in speccs not wanted in that type of content, entire warbands **** off and leaving after first push cause "they don't want to drop royal shards to Order". I also did one of the famed destro double fort pushes and people started leaving the first pushed fort before we even got to stage 3, moving to second and promptly losing it. Chat that day was throwing the blame on that entire thing on 1 known engi in the fort that was apparently so leet he was killing all 160 people all the time...

Destro was having issues taking forts vs determined defenders before, but even if there is a nerf to rdps AoE damage (which would have enormous impact everywhere, not only in sieges - on oRvR destro generally doesn't perform as horrid, cities are completely balanced now), it's not gonna solve the organisation problems, which is the issue Destro has right now when it comes to your general non-guild event oRvR.

Destro players won on order and on destro side, before destro nerfs, weird how that works.

Black horror rerolled from order to destro and went out and made a whine thread about MMR in city and you should only get 12vs12 if you queue as a 12 man after they got steam rolled by order premades.
NGE players show up in threads and tell people to try the career slayer and BW when order whines about how bad order careers are.

Order has been zerging since March stop lying, order zerged so hard they've managed to reset the campaign before IC was unlocked on several occasions, a feat unheard by destro. I geared up my ib in a couple of weeks of casual play just running with the Zerg, while destro just used to be better to sit and wait for city push and gear through city wins, defense changed that and all of the sudden destro started going out in the lakes just to get royals, but order is still zerging to IC on a daily basis.

[ChicagoJoe]

I bet if the main door and posterns on fortresses were 50% wider the destro attackers odds would greatly improve. Maybe the fortress doors get wider by 20-25% for each t2 or t3 racial pairing won, or if it zone resets to middle T4 pairing on failed fortress push. Maybe attackers get Orc-a-pults for claimed keep t2-t3 wins and failed fortress attempt if doorways aren’t the answers allowing for an attacker push from above as well as main and postern.

Right now no one cares who wins t2 or t3 keeps, and there is no motive to push again on a failed fortress attempt.

Something should be done about the current imbalance in fort defense/attacks (and city). It hurts the population when one side 70%+ loses even when organized.

Also AAO bonuses are currently insignificant and need to be reviewed. Contribution in fort defense where there is no motive for reward needs to be reviewed. Defenders should ALWAYS get something for defense not reduced rewards. Again I have never noticed any significant AAO bonus because if it is kill based attackers may be so overwhelmed that they don’t get any kills. It should be possible to exclude obvious AFK situations from the extra rewards. If I die 6 times trying different ways to make it into a keep to defend it I should get something for my efforts that is greater incentive than to cross realm and get a easy win.

The bright side is the game overall is awesome, some minor tweaks can ensure player base on both sides.

[nuadarstark]

Order has been zerging since March stop lying, order zerged so hard they reset campaign several times before city was unlocked, a feat unheard by destro. I geared up my ib in a couple of weeks of casual play just running with the Zerg, while destro just used to be better to sit and wait for city push and gear through city wins, defense changed that and all of the sudden destro started going out in the lakes just to get royals, but order is still zerging to IC on a daily basis.

Oh get out with that. We zerged for 1 month in summer hard, and that was because we literally made a near server-wide alliance that had nearly everyone of note aside from Bene and CNTK and coordinated up to 6 WBs in prime time. Alliance that has been disbanded for 2 months btw. And we did that cause we got sick of getting zerged by destro and because we wanted to get better after destros argument for us loosing cities was "get organised".

Now IC gets pushed daily because destro has low presence in NA and cause they get broken by organised Order (with generaly lower numbers online) in EU prime time and log off. People also don't have the fight in them anymore, which is why you see those massive swings from one side to the other when a siege or fort gets defended or push broken.

To get to other point - Olethrow was a joke even before he made Black Horror and raged on forums about getting paired against premades with his premade, not much that changed there.