WH and WE (Discussion)

[MedV]

There are some slight differences in the WE and WH. I am not gonna discuss in detail which class is better, this will just be a topic on what the main differences are and how that effects gameplay. I am no expert on the WE and of course am probably missing some key abilities. The differences are below.

** This is not a post about WH fighting WE - Its about the differences between the class and which has an upperhand in killing their target **

WE
Kisses can be proceed on all attacks (Pro- More dps ; Con- cannot proc on demand)
Masterful Treachery- More dmg when coming out of stealth
Wracking Pains - Tough/WS debuff and dps overtime
Witchbrew - DPS
TOB - Chance to increase dmg for a period of time
Death Reaper- Morale 3- Crit rate for group increased by 50% for 10 seconds
Baneful Touch - Restore AP when hitting from Rear or Flank

WH
Repel Blasphemy- Parry for 5 seconds (Pro- great against melee dps and tanks for survivability)
BAL - Major DOT plus Burst DPS
Exit Wound - Lowers Tough/Str and WS but uses up finisher points


Seems to me that WE excel in doing more burst and sustained dps. While the WH can string together 12 seconds of 100% parry. I would like to argue that BAL is the best ability either of these classes have, but does not make up for missing so many important tactics the WE gets plus a way better M3.

Any thoughts on which class might have an edge in 1v1s?

Being wanted in group play depends on a couple of aspects. AOE, group buffs, Mobility, Burst etc. Give us a Group Buff. As it stands - KOTBS, SM, BW, Engi, RP, AM and WP (for order) all have group buffs. My proposal is as follows.

Final Cleansing: Group buff which lasts 1 hour. Each attack on an enemy has a X% chance to burn target for Y damage over Z time.
This will be paired with a tactic - Critical Cleanse: Any enemy with the Debuff "Final Cleansing" will be 5% more likely to be crit by other group members.

[Hardkoar]

Exit wounds does not just lower the stat, it also does damage iirc.

The ranged finishers are a big play for the WH, being able to apply BAL and just walk away for some huge ticks of damage, or use the gun ranged finishers when being kited away provide a big advantage over the WE having to be on the target 100% of the time to be able to inflict damage with its finishers.

[MedV]

Both WE and WH have ranged finisher

[Hardkoar]

Although its always nice to point out the differences between to mirror classes I believe it is more important to point out how both classes are severely in need of love to find a welcome position within group play in both small scale and warbands. Currently any other melee dps is far superior in any way shape or form.

Aside for the ability to be in stealth and therefor roam around being a scout/spotter, there are far superior duelist / 1v1 / 1vx classes out there that completely outshine both wh and we.

[VindicoAtrum]

Although its always nice to point out the differences between to mirror classes I believe it is more important to point out how both classes are severely in need of love to find a welcome position within group play in both small scale and warbands. Currently any other melee dps is far superior in any way shape or form.

Aside for the ability to be in stealth and therefor roam around being a scout/spotter, there are far superior duelist / 1v1 / 1vx classes out there that completely outshine both wh and we.

Totally agree with this. As a WE many classes are just "never attack" because they make my burst look pathetic.

[CeeJay89]

Exit wounds does not just lower the stat, it also does damage iirc.

The ranged finishers are a big play for the WH, being able to apply BAL and just walk away for some huge ticks of damage, or use the gun ranged finishers when being kited away provide a big advantage over the WE having to be on the target 100% of the time to be able to inflict damage with its finishers.

Why do people still think this? WE was given 30ft to their finishers years ago. (By the way, it looks ridiculous)

Also...BAL is a 5ft finisher.

Updated with the ranged finisher

Downdate it.

[siglade]

Seems to me that WE excel in doing more burst and sustained dps. While the WH can string together 12 seconds of 100% parry. I would like to argue that BAL is the best ability either of these classes have, but does not make up for missing so many important tactics the WE gets plus a way better M3.

WE have more usefull tactics which help a lot in 1v1. Raw power WE is far ahead, BaL is good but not the best, Exit wound/Witchbrew/Puncture are better.

Both are good and perform well for solo.

[Hardkoar]

Seems to me that WE excel in doing more burst and sustained dps. While the WH can string together 12 seconds of 100% parry. I would like to argue that BAL is the best ability either of these classes have, but does not make up for missing so many important tactics the WE gets plus a way better M3.

Both are good and perform well for solo.

Ok so lets assume the trade off for not being welcome in any group play is ''perform well for solo''.

I wonder how many people are terrified of meeting a we/wh in the lakes when going out with their class to 1v1 and how many think ''lol free RR''. I'm not talking about the generic zerger caught outside of his hand holding teammates, i'm talking about tanks/wl's/maras/sw's/slayers that are set up for 1vX just like the we and wh set themselves up on a daily basis to ''perform well solo''.

[Xergon]

Imo, if we talking about bring best spec possible for 1v1 between each other, i think WE should win most of the time, there is outplay potential for WH but its hard to pull off. Its mostly matchup playing around CD's and stuff or what abilities got parried and so.

Everyone pointing out RB, its noob trap nothing else. Most classes can strip that Blessing off, specially a WE, and even if u cant, u can just disengage when its up and re-engage, thats all.

Biggest difference is in AP sustain between both classes. WE has big advantage over WH in this match up.

But again i hate when ppl try to compare 1v1 classes, there is no balance in there and there never will be. No point mentioning that WE has better m3 because it does not matter in 1v1 fight. What does matter what those classes brings to groups, and yes WE still has edge mostly from AP and burst potential but that doesn't mean WH is useless. One of biggest and the scariest weapon on WH is middle m4, which pretty much can guarantee u win in 6v6 scenario or city stage3.

[Sarnai]

Xergon pretty much sums it up. Strange how so many see these two classes in some kind of isolated bubble, like they're 'meant' to fight each other and so much gravity is given to which class would beat the other. Get out there and farm sorcs, engis, choppas, ect... not each other.

Especially since the change to DA/AE making it undefendable makes most WE v WH matchups end before they even start.