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Fort Tracking One Month In

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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#71 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:24 pm

Onigokko0101 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:18 pm
Gurf wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:11 pm As Bombling mentioned Destro don't form hardly any decent Warbands any more. Destro are all small 6 man groups or solo DPS Shammies, maybe one night a week you get FMJ, one night VII, one night WOM, very rarely many together and the pugs are all sub standard except the occasional Broccoli group.

Whereas Order have full Warbands of CNTK, Rescue Team, Fog of War, SMASH almost every night of the week , all with decent setup 2-2-2 with slightly different play times, then they have pug leaders like Beastz and Sarbix also running organised setup, so some nights Order has 5 good Warbands on all communicating and supporting when needed to push zones and forts. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to see why Order does better at the moment, but of course all Des do is complain about imbalance and unfair Devs taking away their I-win morale bomb instead of seeing what is actually going on.
So Order are unorganized = Destro nerfs.

Destro unorganized = Git gud?

You see the issue isnt if it has to do with organization or not, its about the fact that Destro has gone months with constant nerfs, and yes a lot of them were small but it all adds up. So do we nerf the overperforming realm and buff the underperforming one, or not? Cause if not, then lets revert all the changes.
So what nerfs weren't actually needed in the name of balance? WL was also nerfed after constant Destro complaints, which was correct because that particular Guardian build was OP. Morale bomb nerfs correct as it has massively improved warband v warband fights and varied composition and skill of warbands. Mara aoe is more or less at the level where it should be now at a similar level to WL. Obviously the Chosen tactic change was ridiculous so that was reverted. I don't see any nerfs which weren't actually required to help balance the game.

An aoe heal debuff that stacks was insanely OP, even the version of Windblock Des have now is OP seeing as only one side has access to an aoe heal debuff, but one that stacks with other heal debuff was ridiculous so obviously had to be fixed. An instant undefendable pull was also stupidly OP, so that was fixed and it is probably better now than before as it has increased ranged and doesn't give tanks immunity.

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Onigokko0101
Posts: 192

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#72 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:53 pm

Gurf wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:24 pm
Onigokko0101 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:18 pm
Gurf wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:11 pm As Bombling mentioned Destro don't form hardly any decent Warbands any more. Destro are all small 6 man groups or solo DPS Shammies, maybe one night a week you get FMJ, one night VII, one night WOM, very rarely many together and the pugs are all sub standard except the occasional Broccoli group.

Whereas Order have full Warbands of CNTK, Rescue Team, Fog of War, SMASH almost every night of the week , all with decent setup 2-2-2 with slightly different play times, then they have pug leaders like Beastz and Sarbix also running organised setup, so some nights Order has 5 good Warbands on all communicating and supporting when needed to push zones and forts. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to see why Order does better at the moment, but of course all Des do is complain about imbalance and unfair Devs taking away their I-win morale bomb instead of seeing what is actually going on.
So Order are unorganized = Destro nerfs.

Destro unorganized = Git gud?

You see the issue isnt if it has to do with organization or not, its about the fact that Destro has gone months with constant nerfs, and yes a lot of them were small but it all adds up. So do we nerf the overperforming realm and buff the underperforming one, or not? Cause if not, then lets revert all the changes.
So what nerfs weren't actually needed in the name of balance? WL was also nerfed after constant Destro complaints, which was correct because that particular Guardian build was OP. Morale bomb nerfs correct as it has massively improved warband v warband fights and varied composition and skill of warbands. Mara aoe is more or less at the level where it should be now at a similar level to WL. Obviously the Chosen tactic change was ridiculous so that was reverted. I don't see any nerfs which weren't actually required to help balance the game.

An aoe heal debuff that stacks was insanely OP, even the version of Windblock Des have now is OP seeing as only one side has access to an aoe heal debuff, but one that stacks with other heal debuff was ridiculous so obviously had to be fixed. An instant undefendable pull was also stupidly OP, so that was fixed and it is probably better now than before as it has increased ranged and doesn't give tanks immunity.
and Order has no issues that might be OP, or do you only see it from one side?
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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#73 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:54 pm

So much nonsense it s hard to answer to everything.

Destro whine they cannot take forts due to rdps pressure, but when told to play rdps u say forts got nothing to do with rdps ! If that s true, then no problem with order rdps pressure and u r fine since destro melee ball (in practice) is better than order one (which shld be better in theory but having a good number of slayers in a fort is very rare).

Why do u assume i only play order when my posts r neutral ?
I blame order for whining about GTDC when they only play classes that get countered by it.
And i blame destro for whining about slayers when they only play classes that get countered by them.
Where is the bias here ? Yeah, prolly in ur mind.

Last, i m, at the moment, almost only playing order yes. Why did i switch ? It was soooooo damn easy in cities as destro i got bored of it. So when u think oder got carried by destro nerfs, it s actually the other way around, destro got carried by opness for quite some time.

Pulls are MUCH better than pounces, they r much more punishing, who got more of that ?
Debuffs are MUCH better than buffs, buff 1 guy +10% dmg, HE does 10% more, debuff someone so he takes 10% more dmg, EVERYBODY hitting him does 10% more dmg, who got more of that ?

Anyways, i like playing both sides so i don t really care who got what, i just can switch and i m golden.
What i don t like is ppl attacking ones argument, then using THE EXACT SAME argument to push their agenda.

Anyways, peace, have fun

emiliorv
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Posts: 1295

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#74 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:58 pm

Gurf wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:11 pm As Bombling mentioned Destro don't form hardly any decent Warbands any more. Destro are all small 6 man groups or solo DPS Shammies, maybe one night a week you get FMJ, one night VII, one night WOM, very rarely many together and the pugs are all sub standard except the occasional Broccoli group.

Whereas Order have full Warbands of CNTK, Rescue Team, Fog of War, SMASH almost every night of the week , all with decent setup 2-2-2 with slightly different play times, then they have pug leaders like Beastz and Sarbix also running organised setup, so some nights Order has 5 good Warbands on all communicating and supporting when needed to push zones and forts. It doesn't take a rocket scientists to see why Order does better at the moment, but of course all Des do is complain about imbalance and unfair Devs taking away their I-win morale bomb instead of seeing what is actually going on.
Order were UNABLE to organize 24 ppl to make a decent wb for city but magically you are a **** organizated machine to field 200 organized players in forts => sound legit...
dunno why you give credit to a retired player (at least is what his signature say...)

For sure only PUGs/6 man left playing destro...thats probably true, the guilds that can form full wbs in the past left the game or moved to order => these full wbs are 6man roaming now. Any leader who wants to make a competitive wb will make it in destro right now, the best tools of destro were nerfed one by one...so nothing left.

As some order player said:
Sybreal wrote: Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:11 pm The meta and how the devs wanted the game to play out shifted away from the class balance/tactics Destro was using.
The meta was willfully changed to match the Order gameplay, so this effect is totally intended. The new meta is on order classes => organized guilds move to new meta...its not hard to understand (isnt rocket science...you know)

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Brakh
Posts: 97

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#75 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:01 pm

Play destro, push up to last zone, relog to order, get some contribution, go fort. Get roll for bags and +5 crests. Profit! :)

heybaws
Posts: 124

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#76 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:05 pm

Most of the forts destro has pushed looks like 1 organised 2/2/2 wb and 100 pugs who waits for someone to carry them. Sometimes it's doable, sometimes it's not. But sometimes things are even worse: destro has no organised warbands in fort whatsoever, which leads to 1 dry push from pugs and 30 min afk at the warcamp. Organisation looks like a main issue to me. Plus sometimes morale drain from Solar Flare can **** up a push badly, but that looks more like l2p problems (1st tank didn't used m4 before entering and got drained, or 2nd tank moved in too early and got drained so there is no double m4 for grp).

emiliorv
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Posts: 1295

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#77 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:08 pm

Earthcake wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:54 pm Last, i m, at the moment, almost only playing order yes. Why did i switch ? It was soooooo damn easy in cities as destro i got bored of it. So when u think oder got carried by destro nerfs, it s actually the other way around, destro got carried by opness for quite some time.
You havent faced any organized order wb with at least 3-4 slayers, i played healer (DoK) and i can assure you that a wb with a stack of slayers are on a whole other level...

Let me ask => what class you played on destro and what class you play now on order?? and now in order is much harder to win cities??

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Earthcake
Posts: 251

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#78 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:20 pm

Chosen/BO
IB

Hard to say, destro punishes bad positionning alot more for sure, pulls, aoe KD, windblock and so on.

Perfect WB both side, no mistakes ever made : order wins.
Bad WB both sides, plaetora of mistakes : destro wins.
And the whole specter beetween these 2 extremes...

That s my oppinion.

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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#79 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:29 pm

Onigokko0101 wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:53 pm and Order has no issues that might be OP, or do you only see it from one side?
Well I mentioned the WL nerfs were justified but balance isn't ever going to be perfect but in all honesty I don't see anything game breaking on Order side. I only saw the difference between Sorc and BW m4s today and there is a big difference , so Sorc could do with morale buff. Order has a slightly higher heal output from WP with KOBS but Destro has aoe heal debuff (which is still used by every good Des guild in City). Plus I tested the difference between slotting Discipline and the 10% extra heal on a WP and the total heal output isnt very different between the two tactics. But I do admit order has slightly higher heal potential.

Despite the hype around Slayer Rampage I hardly play my Slayer due to how squishy you have to be to put out good damage, (basically full Invader fully enraged Slayer is most vulnerable class in game) , so prefer to play WL myself. After watching TheOddOnes Mara video I know neither my Slayer or WL can put out burst damage anywhere near that level.

The main overall class disparity I see right now is that BG is still much better than IB and Shammy is ridiculously overpowered in roaming and small scale compared to all other classes on both sides.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Fort Tracking One Month In

Post#80 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:58 pm

emiliorv wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:58 pm
The meta was willfully changed to match the Order gameplay, so this effect is totally intended. The new meta is on order classes => organized guilds move to new meta...its not hard to understand (isnt rocket science...you know)
You probably shouldn't speak as an authority on things that you're not. Balance doesn't work like this, there isn't some hidden or open bias behind changes to affect RvR outcomes, it's simply not a goal we have.
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