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The problem with SoR and RvR

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Lithenir
Posts: 262

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#21 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:40 pm

NSKaneda wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:13 am
Lithenir wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:57 am
That's why I just want the numbers removed, not the add-on itself. You would still be able to see every siege in every zone. Just not how many attackers.

Thus cannon ninja teams would make a comeback, hitting keep doors to divert opposition while real attacks are happening in different zone(s). We've been through this before...
Seems like you're not a friend of distracting strategies...
And those ninja teams had only one purpose to stop keep progress which doesn't work anymore. Besides you can bring a keep door to only 99% via cannon. So it will be obvious pretty fast that there isn't a real siege.

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NSKaneda
Posts: 625

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#22 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:03 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:40 pm
Seems like you're not a friend of distracting strategies...
And those ninja teams had only one purpose to stop keep progress which doesn't work anymore. Besides you can bring a keep door to only 99% via cannon. So it will be obvious pretty fast that there isn't a real siege.
I'm a friend of a good fight and ballsy moves ;)

Players (people) will always exploit the system and choose a path of least resistance. They will zerg because it's easier than fighting. They will storm empty keeps and distract enemies to lock empty zones without a fight. One party can and will take down doors while main force is busy in other zones. "Zone preparation forces" have roamed before SoR times and will do so again, the only thing that'll change is main zerg switching pairings to blitz inner gates and move to next (prepared) zone.

Sure, numbers in SoR do not help with dynamic fighting but neither did information-less playing in times before SoR.
Would Tier1 style help (AAO + battleground information)? I highly doubt it. It'd only slow the inevitable down but once scouts rely information it'd boil down to what we have now: either ignore the zone, have 2-3 guild parties go in search of small scale fighting or escalate to zerg on zerg scale.

The question is in campaign goals - and as long as it's easier to get gear via zone locks and sieges rather than fighting situation will not change.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM, Mordoszczel BO | Ginnar IB, Zuriael AM ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
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franzjaeger
Posts: 41

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#23 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:13 pm

The game would be much more interesting for sure if pop numbers and AAO wasn't visible to the player. There are other addons than SoR that gives this info though so the devs would have to make that info non-available I guess.

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dwyur
Posts: 26
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Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#24 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:29 pm

I suggested awhile back that there be a 5-10 minute cooldown on SoR updating, not having it be instant
adds a slight factor of strategy and surprise to moving zones
Dirkfunk - 65 Runepriest
Maala - 67 DoK
Durtknap - 65 Choppa
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Secrets
Developer
Posts: 246

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#25 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:32 pm

This could easily be bypassed by players. We would have to limit searching for players to once per minute, or by name, or something ridiculous, and that's not user friendly. There will eventually be workarounds to even removing that - there are LUA interface events that trigger when a player loads on the screen. These could be used to automate the functionality between others that have a potential addon, and thus display actual numbers for other players.
Streams could be used to show numbers as well, ie; viewing someone's Twitch stream ingame can show the active zone.


Ultimately, it would be a war with addon / content creators. and one we would eventually lose.

From a gameplay perspective, knowing where AAO is becomes extremely beneficial to players who 'chase the AAO bonus' - you're fighting against the odds but are also getting rewarded for it.

Removing an indicator that you're outnumbered means that everyone will ask, "What's the active zone?" followed by, "Why is my experience/renown trash in the zone compared to <zone name>?" - both are not user friendly, and actually, there's a huge benefit to showing that - it makes the zone population get distributed evenly, and thus RvR action happens in some capacity.

There is a detriment to *not* showing it, as players have to ask each other, which would result in everyone going to the 'active zone' by word of mouth.

That being said, I do see a counterargument, which would be - 'players could be wrong about the active zone with players in it' - still, there will eventually be workarounds, and it's not worth spending development time on.

lyncher12
Posts: 412

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#26 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:35 pm

wasnt cross realm searching disabled?

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Lithenir
Posts: 262

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#27 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:53 pm

Cross realm searching is disabled which is why Zonepop doesn't really work anymore.

I remember on live SoR showed AAO but not the population - I guess mythic or EA didn't want to show the actual player numbers ^^

I also don't want the AAO counter to go just the actual population because no one really wants to go in empty zones and I think it could split the zerg because you have to actually watch the other zones instead of looking for the population.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 7088
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Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#28 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:17 pm

Secrets wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:32 pm
This could easily be bypassed by players. We would have to limit searching for players to once per minute, or by name, or something ridiculous, and that's not user friendly. There will eventually be workarounds to even removing that - there are LUA interface events that trigger when a player loads on the screen. These could be used to automate the functionality between others that have a potential addon, and thus display actual numbers for other players.
Streams could be used to show numbers as well, ie; viewing someone's Twitch stream ingame can show the active zone.


Ultimately, it would be a war with addon / content creators. and one we would eventually lose.

From a gameplay perspective, knowing where AAO is becomes extremely beneficial to players who 'chase the AAO bonus' - you're fighting against the odds but are also getting rewarded for it.

Removing an indicator that you're outnumbered means that everyone will ask, "What's the active zone?" followed by, "Why is my experience/renown trash in the zone compared to <zone name>?" - both are not user friendly, and actually, there's a huge benefit to showing that - it makes the zone population get distributed evenly, and thus RvR action happens in some capacity.

There is a detriment to *not* showing it, as players have to ask each other, which would result in everyone going to the 'active zone' by word of mouth.

That being said, I do see a counterargument, which would be - 'players could be wrong about the active zone with players in it' - still, there will eventually be workarounds, and it's not worth spending development time on.
I had suggested a while ago using Heroes of Might and Magic style terms for enemy groups instead of hard numbers. Adapted for Warhammer of course.
Few = 1-4
Several = 5-9
Pack = 10-19
Lots = 20-49
Horde = 50-99
Throng = 100-249
Swarm = 250-499
Zounds = 500-999
Legion = 1000+

Solo hunters
Roaming groups
Parties
Warbands
Battalions
Brigades
Armies
Image
[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
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Aethilmar
Posts: 270

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#29 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:27 pm

NSKaneda wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:03 pm
The question is in campaign goals - and as long as it's easier to get gear via zone locks and sieges rather than fighting [the] situation will not change.
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berneke91
Posts: 60

Re: The problem with SoR and RvR

Post#30 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:27 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:17 pm

I had suggested a while ago using Heroes of Might and Magic style terms for enemy groups instead of hard numbers. Adapted for Warhammer of course.
Few = 1-4
Several = 5-9
Pack = 10-19
Lots = 20-49
Horde = 50-99
Throng = 100-249
Swarm = 250-499
Zounds = 500-999
Legion = 1000+

Solo hunters
Roaming groups
Parties
Warbands
Battalions
Brigades
Armies
I think that would be pretty great!
Jucka Skullcrusher - Blorc RR8X
Melwin Smelwin - SH RR7X
Juckanizer - Mara RR7X
Demagoguery - Zealot RR40
Vindictus - DoK RR40
Choptastic - Choppa RR4X

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