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Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

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jughurta
Posts: 21

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#51 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:15 pm

Lorsten wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:05 pm
kmark101 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:46 pm
OP is extremely biased guy.

You cry a nerf to Rampage, being undefendable is breaking the game, at the same time you call TANKS equal (rofl...) with destro tanks having self morale pump, which results black orks dropping bellows some 20 seconds into any fight - guess what, just at the same time you get to yellow rage as slayer, activate rampage and get to yellow rage again to hit... and that 1,200 damage aoe is also undefendable because it's morale... so what is balanced now here? Black orks reaching instant 1,200 undefendable aoe drop vs slayers doing some 300 damage undefendable hit for 10-20 sec?
This is why Morale dmg been capped hardly, for being undefendable, unbalanced and not fun for everyone i guess. The morales was fine, when being used in small scale (9 man cap) and become totally uncontrollable when 24 man cap was introduced.
And this is why destro expect something to be done about slayer crazy dmg combo. Rampage, ID are fine, it always was. But it became cancer mechanic in 24ppl+ gameplay. Proper order WB's (NGE, TUP) are able to stack this undefendable mechanic dmg to hilarious lvl, where snb tanks melts faster than their dd.

Sometimes "fine" and "working as intended" abilities become game breaking when applied to another scale. This was the case with mara's stacking WB's with moral drain (we sometimes stacked 8 maras in FMJ WB, just for lulz), with bomb warbands stacking classes with 1200 M2.

+1
Last edited by jughurta on Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lorsten
Posts: 37

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#52 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:21 pm

I didnt say 24 aoe cap is bad, or good. I said that some things can be ok by themselves, but are game breaking combined or under certain circumstances.
Spoil - 84 RR Sorceress
Liops - 82 RR DoK
Nicebeard - 80 RR Marauder

marafado
Posts: 80

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#53 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:37 pm

"have played every class on both sides", sad to read this words :(
ppl need to to jump from side to side and play both factions to be listen in forum :(
im sure in future ror can do a better pvp/rvr game.

Alucard2010
Posts: 61

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#54 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:28 pm

Hey, this looks like a good general bitch about the game thread. Devs and team, please fix my 2h knight. I want vigilance or Ms back. Thanks

Dwarni
Posts: 74

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#55 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:44 pm

Developers are clearly Destruction biased!

I mean look at the Inevitable city, while Aldorf never got any Halloween decoration they still have theirs...

User avatar
Oglaf
Posts: 239

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#56 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:04 pm

Lorsten wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:05 pm
kmark101 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:46 pm
OP is extremely biased guy.

You cry a nerf to Rampage, being undefendable is breaking the game, at the same time you call TANKS equal (rofl...) with destro tanks having self morale pump, which results black orks dropping bellows some 20 seconds into any fight - guess what, just at the same time you get to yellow rage as slayer, activate rampage and get to yellow rage again to hit... and that 1,200 damage aoe is also undefendable because it's morale... so what is balanced now here? Black orks reaching instant 1,200 undefendable aoe drop vs slayers doing some 300 damage undefendable hit for 10-20 sec?
This is why Morale dmg been capped hardly, for being undefendable, unbalanced and not fun for everyone i guess. The morales was fine, when being used in small scale (9 man cap) and become totally uncontrollable when 24 man cap was introduced.
And this is why destro expect something to be done about slayer crazy dmg combo. Rampage, ID are fine, it always was. But it became cancer mechanic in 24ppl+ gameplay. Proper order WB's (NGE, TUP) are able to stack this undefendable mechanic dmg to hilarious lvl, where snb tanks melts faster than their dd.

Sometimes "fine" and "working as intended" abilities become game breaking when applied to another scale. This was the case with mara's stacking WB's with moral drain (we sometimes stacked 8 maras in FMJ WB, just for lulz), with bomb warbands stacking classes with 1200 M2.
Hear-hear.

Rampage is fine in a vacuum but it is breaking the heck out of Fort/Keep settings.

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teiloh
Posts: 554

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#57 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:07 pm

metroid24 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:36 pm
-Slayer vs Choppa : Slayer is obviously BROKEN with Rampage especially in 6 vs 6 with 2 players or multiple slayer stacks in WB/large scale fights, 5 sec damage block morale vs Choppas absorb, especially in Warband or 6 vs 6 play that Slayer 5 sec parryblockdodge all is superior....Inevitable Doom (heavy aoe stack damage) vs Get to Da Choppa (AoE pull) okay to keep classes unique?
Chop Fasta remains the single best ability in the game. GTDC is cheese. Rampage is overrated (BG + Piercing Defenses is more than close enough) and the absorb will just as often save your life as the 5s damage block, as it does nothing for DoTs after it's down. Choppa is better by a little bit. Advantage: Choppa
-Mara and White Lion : are more balanced now, Mara slightly better defensive while WL better ST burst
ST burst is not a huge deal in the game and good Destro will just draw WLs out and kill them. A WL has never been a threat to any of my Destro chars. Meanwhile Marauder pull is overwhelmingly superior, their utility is better, their defense is better, their morales are better after the non-stop one-way mirroring favoring Destro, and their AOE is on par if not better. WL only have Pounce and CS going for them, but those were one-way mirrored to Destro, in all other ways Mara is superior. Mara also has superior group support. Advantage: Mara
- Healer classes fairly balanced while still having their unique quirks~
They're not balanced, at all. Once again, Desperation was one-way mirrored to Shaman, AM M1 got nerfed because one guy made a bad argument. All good RP abilities were one-way mirrored to Zealot (Mountain Spirit, Ancestor's Echo, Regenerative Shielding) while RP got absolutely nothing in return (WOI, Tzeentch's Talon, By Tzeentch's Will). Warrior Priests have only Exalted Defenses as their main advantage, DOK have better Covenants, Khaine's Withdrawal, better heal debuff, etc. Advantage: Destro
-Tank classes are fairly balanced : remember we cannot and dont WANT to achieve 100% balance, this is WAR! We just want to make it reasonable for both sides.
BO is outright busted with the CD reducer. Again, more one-way mirroring: BO got a Blurring Shock equivalent. That said Chosen did get nerfed a ton, but Knight is probably the most nerfed class in the game with the unwarranted 3m timer on M2, Runefang being ****ed, etc. BG can spam AOE, IB takes a lot of skill and a good build to be good. Advantage: Destro.
-WE and WH : the one is more offensive and the other has more defensive skills mainly Witch Brew vs the 100% parry buff, okay? They are both not game breaking on large scale fights and 6mans both classes have a solid use.
SH vs SW - SH more melee aoe dmg focused, SW now decent AoE damage much better than before, great ST as an Assault SW, and better ranged than before. Melee SH is fine, no need buff or nerf but Ranged SH needs a ranged knockdown ( Destro have 0 long ranged kd vs Orders 2).
Magus vs Engineer - broken - Engineer did not need that last buff with the Snipe 2 sec Gunblast 1 sec tactic. They were already good aoe damage and good ST damage without that, now Sniper squads can simply delete targets and even a solo Engineer can timestamp someone alot faster. Magus either need similar tactic or Engineer to remove that Snipe Gunblast tactic. Engineer has cannonsmash m3 and Magus have nothing even close to as powerful, Guaranteed kill Snipe > Gunblast > Canonsmash > Focused Fire. Control, Alt, DELETED! Magus do not have that kind of quick burst....
Mythic did more one-way mirroring (handing WE ranged finishers). WE were far superior in practice but then the ICD on Kisses really hurt them. However they still have a +50% crit morale that escaped the blanket crit nerfs on RoR and have much better support and a clearer role to play. Advantage: WE, unless you're in a very tight and coordinated setup. Then it's arguably equal.
Sorc vs BW - Sorc slightly better on ST with Gloomburst tactic, BW more utility and AoE but BW especially outshines in large scale AoE fights, Fort and Keep defenses / Funnels with superior Rain of Fire with Fan the Flames (increased radius on Rain of Fire) and Wildfire (DoT procs from Rain of Fire aoe). Bright Wizards are BROKEN and easymode to play for Fort/Keeps/Funnels simply because RoF hits hard but better than Sorcs because of increased radius on RoF and the DoT proc hits HARD. They are hitting more targets and doing way more damage than a Sorc doing Pit of Shades with no radius increaser or dot proc......that is simply BROKEN. I could stand at any fort with a BW and a pocket heal and just get massive kills with that one ability? Funnel Power, RoF, procs from Flames of Ruin AND a hard hitting DoT all hitting from one ability.....
Sorc has a massive advantage ST, big advantage ST burst because their self debuff hits their main damage type. BW only gets 2ndary. In group, the lead widens, as BW does not benefit from ranged AOE debuff on main damage type. That's a free 10-30% boost in damage. POS/ROF do not stack so the radius is moot, unless all 10+ Sorcs are stacking POS in the exact same spot. Wildfire is excellent as is Flashfire, but Sorcs have excellent tactics and Destro has better cures and CD reducers. Ice Spikes/IW > Flame breath and Detonate, which is trash. GoN is underrated. Advantage: Sorcs
So there you have it : While MOST classes are fairly unique and have their own quirks, the realms are quite balanced EXCEPT for Slayers with Rampage, BWs in keeps/forts/funnels with Rain of Fire easymode farm, Magus vs Engineer ST, and Ranged Squig herder needing a slight buff on damage and a ranged knockdown to be useful in RvR/Groups as a Ranged DPS.
Magus is infinitely more powerful than Engi. Once again, one-way mirroring by Mythic - Engi gave Magus Withering Fire for +15% damage. Engi got nothing in return. Magus doesn't need WS and so can stack defensive while getting very high Int. Magus can also move during Tzeentch's Firestorm and Agonizing Torrent, which makes them much better in WBs and city. Then UF got deleted from the game, further weakening Engis. Engi pull also has a 1s delay while Magus pull is instant. Advantage: Magus.
-- In the grim darkness of Warhammer Online, there is only Destrukaren asking for Rampage nerf.

abezverkhiy
Posts: 214

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#58 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:17 pm

Why so many of you are so concerned with Rampage? We do not have 50% of wbs of slayers, we barely have 2-3 of them. Your healers must be able to heal this damage. I mean there are always differences but let's also whinge about WEs using corp damage all the time while WHs need to rely on physical, or kisses procs vs bullets etc. Rampage is not something super OP as some try to sell it.

P.S. Luckily devs won't change it basing on forum drama as they outlined during the latest podcast.
Valknutt WP, Lochdhu IB, Tamdhu SL, Glenturret ENG, Vanhelsen WH

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Elemint
Posts: 190

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#59 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:13 pm

This makes what, 18th? thread where people post blind and biased "analysis" of the realm balance for 10 pages just this month? What's going on to cause all this? Lack of content?

JarlBerzirk
Posts: 147

Re: Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

Post#60 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:15 pm

Elemint wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:13 pm
This makes what, 18th? thread where people post blind and biased "analysis" of the realm balance for 10 pages just this month? What's going on to cause all this? Lack of content?
This. Lock this poop thread and move on.

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