Realm Class Balance vs Unique Class Identity

[Gizbyt]

Lets have a deal: rampage get nerfed but slayer gets "git to da choppa" mirror

Isn''t it hilarious how much whine we have from the dominating faction full of broken classes

It is funny though. Rampage isn't even comparable to GTDC - it is on par with Chop Fasta based on tree placement.

The GTDC tradeoff would be ID.

So... ID and Rampage for GTDC and Chop Fasta? Gladly.

GTDC spam is a cancer unto itself for Destruction. Glad to see it go, personally.

I've got a choppa, have it specced...rarely ever use it cause yea, it just gives out free immunities all the damn time.

[M0rw47h]

Lets have a deal: rampage get nerfed but slayer gets "git to da choppa" mirror

Isn''t it hilarious how much whine we have from the dominating faction full of broken classes

Imagine getting GtdC in ID slot.
I think, if it would happen, majority of slayers would just uninstal...

[metroid24]

Rampage threads are like warm blankets at this point. It is working as intended according to the data we have in the client files. Whether or not it gets changed in the future was left wide open, but methinks people hear what they want to hear.

If you dont mind me asking, which data is this and are you able to share it with the community? What class do you play , or are you seeing this only from the order side of things? I wonder if anyone who has a say in Class Balance and the power to do something about it is playing Destruction at the moment. We could really do with someone who has a neutral view in this. All we are asking for is a fair balance and if you have played forts/cities it is blatantly obvious that Rampage is Scale tipping and cumulative with how many Slayers are in an area doing their AoEs, put on top the far greater AoE pressure Bright Wizards have over Sorcerer's in chokepoints. So the data would have to be from forts and well, i think there is plenty of evidence how those types of fights go....

-Forgot to mention that Engineers get Auto Attack damage, where Maguses get none. That is a few thousand damage over 10-15s missing there.....

[normanis]

in questions and answers ppl said its works as intend
byt overall destro has x2 block channel +buffed bg block + 50%parry for chosens and u dont need spend points in rr for it. vs order side 2h sm wads and ib +25% parry (2 persons) and +10 ib block and +10 kobs block +15 parry (speacial tactic) sm parry +25% is 3 sec uptime vs chosen 20sec and same +25%. as u see rampage is very not game breaking

Can you explain how chosen get 50% parry ? im very interested...

ability + tactic midle tree on block ( if u are snb choosen) flat 50% parry atleast was on my chosen

[normanis]

rampage is tricky u exaustet all rage to 0 so no +50% damage. u need wait some few sec to gain atleast yellow bar to use rampage full potential or its very low damage. also destro tanks punt slayers if they see they have rampage on. also slayer without guard die often easy.
only place where rampage is good its chokepoints when u flank charging in destros and can use rempage. its not win button if u ask. u can be in situation when u used rampage but u are already almost dead because of bad position. byt lets say position and all stuff favout u ( tank , team , ummunity, full red rage healer dont let u die and u dont feel pressure on u ) than rampage in good hands can do miracles. atherwise its just what u can spam and die. its not win button

[Detangler]

"Rampage exhausts rage, slayers hit like wet noodles after!"

Yet Slayers still use it on cooldown. How come?

"You shouldn't be attacking tanks anyways. Hit the squishies or flank the tank!"

Yet slayers still use it on cooldown. How come?


P.S. can't wait for someone to steal my format and replace it with GtdC...

[wargrimnir]

Rampage threads are like warm blankets at this point. It is working as intended according to the data we have in the client files. Whether or not it gets changed in the future was left wide open, but methinks people hear what they want to hear.

If you dont mind me asking, which data is this and are you able to share it with the community? What class do you play , or are you seeing this only from the order side of things? I wonder if anyone who has a say in Class Balance and the power to do something about it is playing Destruction at the moment. We could really do with someone who has a neutral view in this. All we are asking for is a fair balance and if you have played forts/cities it is blatantly obvious that Rampage is Scale tipping and cumulative with how many Slayers are in an area doing their AoEs, put on top the far greater AoE pressure Bright Wizards have over Sorcerer's in chokepoints. So the data would have to be from forts and well, i think there is plenty of evidence how those types of fights go....

-Forgot to mention that Engineers get Auto Attack damage, where Maguses get none. That is a few thousand damage over 10-15s missing there.....

The client data is what was leftover from live that informs us how abilities need to be constructed in order to line up with tooltips and effects. Early in the project we didn't have access to it, and had to rely on whatever we could find from live, be that videos of abilities working, old tooltips, player accounts for finer details on things, it was essentially a mess and we didn't have good ways to verify anything. As we've been able to get into client files and decode what they actually mean, it's helped inform how these abilities are actually designed to perform, rather than how they were implemented from a server code perspective. So when I say "it's working as intended" that means the server code is doing what the client code is expecting.

All the devs and contributors in balance are more than capable of evaluating class balance from a neutral perspective, and in fact are doing so with the best intentions for the class to be successful in their intended roles regardless of the faction they're from. Otherwise, they simply wouldn't be active on the balance team. We don't need people who are only interested in providing a benefit for their own faction, and I believe the vast majority of people are capable of making honest assessments while acknowledging personal bias. They just choose not to in open discussions, as if balance is some polarized battle that needs to be won. I explained during the Q&A, our goals in balance are not to mirror classes or make X class on Destro equivalent to Y class on Order, even for the more mirrored ones. We would prefer classes to be less mirrored over time and more unique. We're looking at what needs each class has and making small adjustments. Larger reworks are much more rare and take more time to implement.

If anything based on your posts today, your view on balance is blatantly biased towards Destro. We can absolutely work with passionate opinions and design suggestions from people who are openly biased, that's not a problem at all. What you might want to consider is that asking devs to approach balance from a neutral perspective means that many of their opinions on balance changes are not going to match up with your own openly biased opinions. I don't want you to think we're being unfair if decisions aren't made that fit your perspective, but clearly that's going to be a reality if you're hard set on supporting one side over the other. What frequently tempers balance threads like this much more often comes down to realm failures to organize and perform, the actual class balance is far closer than you're giving it credit for if you want to lay blame for realm defeat as the balance teams responsibility. We don't make balance decisions based on who is zerging one realm or the other.

[Skarx]

If Slayer op, why are they on par with other dps damage wise in premade vs premade cities ?
If Slayer op, why are premades like FMJ able to push keep/forts ?

Maybe slayer players sucks ?
Or could it be that, it's not that op ?

Rampage can be shattered, ret can be interrupted. I guess it's harder on fort pushes, but you always have aoe stun or aoe decast to do some stuff with ?

The real issue atm is the lack of premade team on destro outisde of prime time, pugs get farmed hard and people complain


What I really hate on my dok tho, is getting 5 stacks of browded arrows on my party all the time on forts. But since pugs can't hold the line, or stop showing themselves in front of the main door to get stacked, it's not really the SW fault.

[jughurta]

Damn that's a long 'nerf Rampage' post

Rampage when aoe cap 6 men or 9 men with tactic is not op, is OP because aoe cap 24
Slayer aoe 24 rampage with IB is broken , infinite action point , perma 10% crit , perma 25% parry
IB buff is insane , if on Kotbs use tactic overpower swing add 10% on ennemies

Etc....


Too much range KD, SW , BW ( required ignite only ) , WL vs one destru on disrupt only Mara

Too much CC on SW 2 stun without required , 1 shadow step , disarm without required, silence , bump m1 , auto bump ; aoe snare 60% m2 , debuff heal without CD

hard cap parry is too easy for too much class ( order and destro) , some classes can reach 1400+ in a primary stat (order and destro)

DOT tick dont break detaunt player ????
damage dot is insane , play detaunt if shaman or arch DOT , detaunt shield , and self heal just wait . The same for engi , magus etc...



the problem is aoe cap , RVR order have a big mechanic crit no CD on dps aoe with rampage .



RVR need revert aoe cap too 6 or 9 with tactics for all aoe . Thus the strategy, the single target, finds its place

[Skarx]

RVR need revert aoe cap too 6 or 9 with tactics for all aoe . Thus the strategy, the single target, finds its place

aoe cap to 24 helps fighting the zerg,

reverting to 6-9 wouldn't make single target viable in RvR as you would get zerged by 4 WB with no way to counter it. It's already hard enough as it is, don't make it worse