SoR change

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blondgelockt
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Posts: 47

Re: SoR change

Post#131 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:40 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:18 pm
It is hilariously telling that you got the exact same response for that assessment from two people at the same time, and you're the one talking about reading comprehension. :)

Explain yourself?

And yeah, your explanation doesn't make any more sense either way it's read. There's three active zones. It's not hard to find fights. It's harder to see how many people are in a zone exactly.
I'm not billyk, dunno how you would come to that conclusion. If we're implying "samefa**ing", then, well, your post and TrefAM's.... well, no matter. I'Ll ignore the quip about reading comprehension because it really doesn't make any sense and I don't want to make fun of guys from Detroit more than I have to.

The problem is the shared tiers, meaning you now have 9 different lakes overall that are potentially to be fought over by the same people. Back then, you had 3 lakes each in 3 tiers which were separated by rank, as I no doubt don't have to remind everyone, so as a T2 char, you won't ever meet a T4 char until you hit T4.

What happens in practise now is one huge zerg the smaller realm (almost) cannot defeat nor defend against and 2 empty maps. So people have the choice of getting farmed or having no fights at all (unless you're enjoying "prepping the map", ie. doing "PvE" supply runs and hoping the other realm will find you and try to stop you). Neither is very attractive to the average player, so less people enter RvR in the first place, stretching the smaller poluation even thinner. If the players opt for map prepping, the smaller realm gets stretched out even thinner, with no guarantee to lock the empty maps fast enough to avoid the zerg.

But in actual practise this is an even worse situation purely because of shammies, the uncrowned (well they were crowned in the 6v6 torunament a while ago actually) kings of small scale. Try prepping a map with some friends and a T4 shammie with nothing better to do can ruin it easily. He doesn't even have to beat your guys (though that is absolutely possible for him solo), he just has to harras you.

This was very different on live, with all tiers being more or less populated, so there was no huge zerg just owning everyone from T2 through T4 and everyone else just living on borrowed time.

Is this more understandable? At least that is how I understood it. I know you guys tried to fix it with bolster but actual gameplay kinda shows this doesn't work.

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Kpi
Posts: 45

Re: SoR change

Post#132 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 4:38 pm

Remove the pop from SOR is the best change in the game ever. I hope they remove AAO soon too
For Kislev!!! For the Zarine!!!

Kpihuss -- WP 85 full SOV Main/Off/2xWarlord
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Lithenir
Posts: 262

Re: SoR change

Post#133 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:27 pm

The hope of proposing this change was to encourage order to do more rvr and less waiting/whining.
Sadly this weekend showed that order is discouraged even more without seeing how many destro beat them. I still think that the bugged fortresses have a say in how RvR went this weekend regardless it might be better to have some sort of population counter available.
AAO tracker doesn't seem to be enough but on the other hand having live updated real numbers is too much information.
I think abstract terms with a 5 minute timer would do it. Still everything (without AAO in that case) has a live update instead of population and AAO since AAO gives insight in population changes.
As the mostly underpopulated realm you need the element of surprise to achive at least something. With realtime updated clear numbers there is no surprise and without any counter there is not much happening.
Maybe this could do the trick.
As for the abstract terms I like the terms Wargrimnir came up with.
Solo hunters
Roaming groups
Parties
Warbands
Battalions
Brigades
Armies

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Goermsi
Posts: 115

Re: SoR change

Post#134 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:37 pm

Please ... take off the order glasses, your post reads absolutely one-sided. Any of the mentioned disadvantages could just as well be an advantage. Not knowing how many players are in the zone ultimately means that the attacker does not know how many are entrenched in the castle and ... the defender does not know how many will come. This creates suspense and is also good because many moves would otherwise be nipped in the bud right from the start
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Beara
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Re: SoR change

Post#135 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:53 pm

It's not like the time could have been better spent. The game is always running at 100%, why wouldn't you create made up problems like a social phobia of large scale cartoon war and then fix that problem by making it so people don't know whether or not they're entering into a large scale cartoon war.

It's really genius, honestly. + and Kudos and Karma!

Great job Devs!
Beara; Annarexia; Bellemia; Beawaaghh; Nightengale
Araeb; Beamz; Blockityblock

I'll be a douche at some point, but I'll be right about it.

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Lithenir
Posts: 262

Re: SoR change

Post#136 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:54 pm

Goermsi wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Please ... take off the order glasses, your post reads absolutely one-sided. Any of the mentioned disadvantages could just as well be an advantage. Not knowing how many players are in the zone ultimately means that the attacker does not know how many are entrenched in the castle and ... the defender does not know how many will come. This creates suspense and is also good because many moves would otherwise be nipped in the bud right from the start
I know that's why I made the proposal in the first place.
But playing without the numvers showed otherwise. You either haven't played since SoR numbers are off or you should take off the destro glasses ;)

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Aethilmar
Posts: 268

Re: SoR change

Post#137 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:52 pm

Goermsi wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Please ... take off the order glasses, your post reads absolutely one-sided. Any of the mentioned disadvantages could just as well be an advantage. Not knowing how many players are in the zone ultimately means that the attacker does not know how many are entrenched in the castle and ... the defender does not know how many will come. This creates suspense and is also good because many moves would otherwise be nipped in the bud right from the start
The answer is almost always zero b/c sitting in a keep gets you ... nothing.

Also you can look at the AAO and do some math.

Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: SoR change

Post#138 » Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:07 pm

Goermsi wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:37 pm
Please ... take off the order glasses, your post reads absolutely one-sided. Any of the mentioned disadvantages could just as well be an advantage. Not knowing how many players are in the zone ultimately means that the attacker does not know how many are entrenched in the castle and ... the defender does not know how many will come. This creates suspense and is also good because many moves would otherwise be nipped in the bud right from the start
The attacker in this case does not care as they outnumber 2:1 on the worst day every castle they go to :D . It is the underdog that has issues, you might wanna take on your own advice and take off the bias glasses.

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TreefAM
Posts: 519

Re: SoR change

Post#139 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:47 am

And order says that destro whines about the most random problems lmao
It's obvious that all the zerglings here just want to know when a zone is getting preped so they can afk in the keep and wait for another random to start an open wb for def and not actually try to coordinate in /t4 chat with other roamers/leaders.
Also somehow order never zergs and they were always the underdog, underpopulated side, I guess when they move in blobs of 40-50 people in a single disc and zerg down single wbs/parties it doesn't count.

JarlBerzirk
Posts: 145

Re: SoR change

Post#140 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:13 am

TreefAM wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 2:47 am
And order says that destro whines about the most random problems lmao
It's obvious that all the zerglings here just want to know when a zone is getting preped so they can afk in the keep and wait for another random to start an open wb for def and not actually try to coordinate in /t4 chat with other roamers/leaders.
Also somehow order never zergs and they were always the underdog, underpopulated side, I guess when they move in blobs of 40-50 people in a single disc and zerg down single wbs/parties it doesn't count.
Just remember, when Des does it, its zerging. When Order does it, its realm priding :D

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