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Lack of Order in ranked

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Poll: What would encourage you to play more ranked?

Improved gear
21
26%
Reduced gear cost
16
20%
Higher rewards per sc
14
17%
Ability to duo q (I know the obvious problem with this one)
2
2%
Other (please specify)
28
35%
Total votes: 81

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PlagueMonk
Posts: 73

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#71 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:54 pm

Funny, I'm on the lower end of the ranked, being only 53 atm but last time I queued I was either FFed down by a Sorc that killed me in 2 secs or was overrun by an orc melee train that did the same (along with anything else in their path)

I would LOVE to "spec prepare" myself for it but if I can't win I get pretty much zippo which means no gear for me. All I'm feel I'm doing is helping Dest out by helping them gear up faster. So instead I am gearing up through oRvR which admittedly has more obtainable weapons. So offering better gear or higher rewards doesn't entice me if I can't win (unless you are offering better rewards to the losers which i doubt). And all better pricing does is make the grind a bit less grindy but I'm still not going to join to lose and get 1 freaking emblem as a participation award.

You want me to queue up? Then there needs to be a bracket between RR 40-66ish and then 67> (wherever the closest gear set RR is). That way the newer RRs don't get chewed up and spit out by those players decked out in Sent gear that are virtually untouchable by lower ranks.
Last edited by PlagueMonk on Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Opeteh
Posts: 14

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#72 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:32 pm

It took me 400+ games to farm full Triumphant set (6th Vanq/Triump bonus is to good for zealot to give up on it) and I wouldn't repeat that expirience again.
It was a hellish grind requiring to have a good set like Sovering already on you if you wanted to stay alive as zealot (imo healing class with the lowest survivability in the game). I also didn't like the fact that every time I wanted to play it I had to respec RR from 3 Futile Strikes /4 Spiritual Refinement (as I normaly play) into 4 /3.
Sure there were also many players regulary filling your 6-men group that didn't wanted to learn that this is not AOE spaming mode or that you need to invest in survivability to not be the reason for your side to lose a match.
On the other hand, nowhere else have I learned so much about the limits and possibilities of mine and other classes than by playing ranked games. Ranked games are on completely different level.

User avatar
Xergon
Posts: 646

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#73 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:22 pm

Opeteh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:32 pm
It took me 400+ games to farm full Triumphant set (6th Vanq/Triump bonus is to good for zealot to give up on it) and I wouldn't repeat that expirience again.
It was a hellish grind requiring to have a good set like Sovering already on you if you wanted to stay alive as zealot (imo healing class with the lowest survivability in the game). I also didn't like the fact that every time I wanted to play it I had to respec RR from 3 Futile Strikes /4 Spiritual Refinement (as I normaly play) into 4 /3.
Sure there were also many players regulary filling your 6-men group that didn't wanted to learn that this is not AOE spaming mode or that you need to invest in survivability to not be the reason for your side to lose a match.
On the other hand, nowhere else have I learned so much about the limits and possibilities of mine and other classes than by playing ranked games. Ranked games are on completely different level.
+1
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Hienzwar
Posts: 129

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#74 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 10:33 pm

Fairly frustrating when I have joined, not being a meta class is a big hinderance as the ideal 2/2/2 is often wanted with good reason.

Worst part is more often then not you will come across trolls, yes people solo que in the hope to get the same pop as their buddies.

Krima has a good point, more weapon choices with different goodies on it would be fun - more attractive for a casual player like me.

User avatar
Mez
Posts: 694

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#75 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:12 pm

I want to do ranked, but I don't. But some competitive changes would definitely get me in.

I'm a fan of faster TTK. I liked WoW arena, I liked the edge of fear of not wanting to die in DAOC PvP due to punishing death penalty (run back, no combat rez). I'm also dreadfully unhappy any time I used to 6v6 or duel and calling no pots, but half your bad guildies run nerf buttons and their strings still fire potions for them mindlessly.

I also like the feeling where any side can win a fight if they try harder, i.e. positioning, assisting, actually paying attention to important buffs and debuffs. Tier 1, Tier 2 for example in RoR had some of the best PvP the internet has ever seen. Lack of consumables, tier 4 abilities and less gear gap was, I'm sorry, the golden age of PvP.

What would I do?

- Upon entering ranked SC, remove all potion buffs and block ALL potions, pocket items, backpack abilities from being used.
- Block all non-morale rez abilities from being cast including banner rez
- All healing in zone is debuffed by 10%
- Players get +150 initiative
- All ranged abilities beyond melee range are reduced by 10% except axe throw and throw dagger (snap shot)
- Armor and Resist soft caps lowered by 15%
- Crowd Control Immunity timers are 25% shorter
- Roots now have their own immunity timer, but duration is cut in half.
- No pulls or rifting.
- No Pounce abilities or charge. No Flee.
- Players can only receive a guard buff for 15s seconds, and then receive a 15 second immunity from receiving guard again.
- Decrease standard cast time from 6 seconds to 1.5 seconds, Standard Blessing and Slam cooldown increased from 2m to 10m
- If 75% of the players in the zone are in combat, and nobody dies for 180 seconds, a 6-man of skaven mobs spawn. Can stack up to 3x. 3 Skaven disappear for every player death occurred.

Additional changes for test server:
- 2 or 3 tactics only
- All players get a granted ability for an 80 foot heal debuff, but with a 10m timer. Will not fire if target has one applied already.
- Player with top damage gets a granted ability at 10m if no one has died yet that will turn any target within 100 feet into a chicken
Genisaurus wrote:In any case, keep this inevitable-24-page-thread civil, and remember that we're not going to pay a bit of attention to this until T4.

Atropik
Posts: 592

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#76 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:37 pm

Mez wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:12 pm
I want to do ranked, but I don't. But some competitive changes would definitely get me in.

I'm a fan of faster TTK. I liked WoW arena, I liked the edge of fear of not wanting to die in DAOC PvP due to punishing death penalty (run back, no combat rez). I'm also dreadfully unhappy any time I used to 6v6 or duel and calling no pots, but half your bad guildies run nerf buttons and their strings still fire potions for them mindlessly.

I also like the feeling where any side can win a fight if they try harder, i.e. positioning, assisting, actually paying attention to important buffs and debuffs. Tier 1, Tier 2 for example in RoR had some of the best PvP the internet has ever seen. Lack of consumables, tier 4 abilities and less gear gap was, I'm sorry, the golden age of PvP.

What would I do?

- Upon entering ranked SC, remove all potion buffs and block ALL potions, pocket items, backpack abilities from being used.
- Block all non-morale rez abilities from being cast including banner rez
- All healing in zone is debuffed by 10%
- Players get +150 initiative
- All ranged abilities beyond melee range are reduced by 10% except axe throw and throw dagger (snap shot)
- Armor and Resist soft caps lowered by 15%
- Crowd Control Immunity timers are 25% shorter
- Roots now have their own immunity timer, but duration is cut in half.
- No pulls or rifting.
- No Pounce abilities or charge. No Flee.
- Players can only receive a guard buff for 15s seconds, and then receive a 15 second immunity from receiving guard again.
- Decrease standard cast time from 6 seconds to 1.5 seconds, Standard Blessing and Slam cooldown increased from 2m to 10m
- If 75% of the players in the zone are in combat, and nobody dies for 180 seconds, a 6-man of skaven mobs spawn. Can stack up to 3x. 3 Skaven disappear for every player death occurred.

Additional changes for test server:
- 2 or 3 tactics only
- All players get a granted ability for an 80 foot heal debuff, but with a 10m timer. Will not fire if target has one applied already.
- Player with top damage gets a granted ability at 10m if no one has died yet that will turn any target within 100 feet into a chicken
Or you can just stay t1 and enjoy life, but wait, they have flee on t1, and banners...
Nicelook | Obey

User avatar
Arbich
Posts: 719

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#77 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:13 am

Mez wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:12 pm


What would I do?

1. - Upon entering ranked SC, remove all potion buffs and block ALL potions, pocket items, backpack abilities from being used.
2. - Block all non-morale rez abilities from being cast including banner rez
3. - All healing in zone is debuffed by 10%
4. - Players get +150 initiative
5. - All ranged abilities beyond melee range are reduced by 10% except axe throw and throw dagger (snap shot)
6. - Armor and Resist soft caps lowered by 15%
7. - Crowd Control Immunity timers are 25% shorter
8. - Roots now have their own immunity timer, but duration is cut in half.
9. - No pulls or rifting.
10. - No Pounce abilities or charge. No Flee.
11. - Players can only receive a guard buff for 15s seconds, and then receive a 15 second immunity from receiving guard again.
12. - Decrease standard cast time from 6 seconds to 1.5 seconds, Standard Blessing and Slam cooldown increased from 2m to 10m
13. - If 75% of the players in the zone are in combat, and nobody dies for 180 seconds, a 6-man of skaven mobs spawn. Can stack up to 3x. 3 Skaven disappear for every player death occurred.

Additional changes for test server:
- 2 or 3 tactics only
- All players get a granted ability for an 80 foot heal debuff, but with a 10m timer. Will not fire if target has one applied already.
- Player with top damage gets a granted ability at 10m if no one has died yet that will turn any target within 100 feet into a chicken
Could you elaborate why these points are important for you?
They sound really strange and would turn solo ranked in a clown show, imo. Some points are valid, though.
1. I agree, would increase balance. Would be a bit awkward that one reward from solo ranked is a pocket item which you then cant use in solo ranked (but no big deal).
2. Yeah, why not. But on the other hand: Why? The usefulness of rezzing a non-healer is already quite dubious, so you can or cannot enable rezzes, doesnt matter that much. Even when considering all your other proposals would be implented. Didn´t see anything there that would increase the value of a rez.
3.wouldnt be a big deal and you will nerf dmg also... so whats the point?
4.classes differ in their capabilities to buff their initiative and after a specific threshold the value of initiave diminishes. So wihout thinking this though, I am quite sure this will result in some balance concerns.
5. Why? I would argue that melee are better than range in 6vs6 scenarios. So this change make no sense. (actually somewhat when looking at point 10, but I disagree with this one, too^^)
6. as resistance softcap differs from armor softcap and resistance softcap is usually far easier reached (especially when you consider point 1: no pots), this should result in a buff for all resistance based dmg, not? Is this the intention?
7.dont know. why this change?
8.again a proposal with huge balance implications. would buff sorc/bw, which might be a good thing.
9. Don´t see how pulls are a big issue. There is actually a quite good chance to interrupt these in solo ranked (by tanks usually). Rift by engi/magus? Can´t remember if I ever saw this in solo ranked. This proposal is adresses a non-issue.
10. while I think pounce should be adressed in general, removing charge also (while making root a unique immunity) would drastically change the pace of the battle. tanks will be totally cucked and for melee it will boil down to the 10sec snare/root immunity ability for pushes. Fights will be very different then they are now, not sure if they will be better.
11. Tanks are already the most difficult classes to play... this will further increase their difficulty level. They have to time their dmg reducing abilities (guard, challenge,cc) even more. On the other hand, I cant really predict how different fights will be with your proposals (especially point 10), so this change might be ok?!
12. Proposal nr. 1 "Remove pocket items!", proposal nr. 12 "Implement a new pocket item!" What?
13. thats sound terrible.
Arbich-BW/Xanthippe-WP/Schnipsel-AM

User avatar
Mez
Posts: 694

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#78 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:50 am

I had more group queue in mind. If both sides are geared out the base is some boring circle jerk combat where the other side tries to see how many times they can kill the weakest link.

The flip is one side is not as geared, and after some losses they give up.

So going from just our base, how would you improve warhammer pvp in a 6v6 vacuum. If you're happy with the mindless button mashing you are in the right place.

So now going back to my 2nd example, how would a lesser geared group have a chance. Right now even if they completely outplay better geared comp and get a kill it doesn't tilt the balance in their favor much as the victim is quickly rezzed up.

Warhammer has small zones where kills just run right back into fights, or are quickly rezzed up back into battle. in RvR, smaller groups had very limited ability to push back greater numbers, ever since AOE was nerfed on live. Which is fine, but Ranked is the only place you have a chance to change the combat experience in a vacuum.

Those changes are not attached with additional reasoning because I expected that post to get ignored . It's more a start to a fantasy fix I had in my head when I saw this thread.

Ultimately it's about faster combat that you don't just step into. It' promotes holy trinity combat where tanks are pushing up front along with melee, and ranged and healers are adjusting around the outside of the battle. Too often in organized pvp you can carry 3-4 teammates who don't even know where their detaunt button is, or a tank who won't float someone guard. And it won't matter. Even if you lose someone, quickly rez him up. There's morales and consummables to correct any errors along the way as you push your paperdoll stats all over the enemy.

I just think with those changes, a lesser geared or organized team has more ability to work together and win if they want TTK is faster, people are mindful of positioning and immunities. debuffing in the right places becomes very powerful. obviously a well timed silence on a healer can be huge, will a tank or back up healer save them? will your teammates pop cooldowns to defend attacks while their healer recovers? If you wipe, you can talk in chat quickly to see about any different tactics needed. I threw in my banner idea because you can quickly change your team in the middle of the fight. Low dps, stowe away the defensive banner and pull out more damage. I also like thinking everyone has 1 oh-**** chance to pull out a banner and hit blessing, kind of like a pally bubbling in wow arena. But that's probably to silly an idea in a faster paced combat setting like I proposed.

I understand RoR isn't filled with super arena pros and hardcore pvp is probably undesired. I got carried away with the 'ranked.' But you can honestly just armor up and last in a ton of other scenarios or RvR. It's just silly to me people want to have the same experience in something called 'ranked,' where the experience could be more hardcore but for the better. I just see fast gap closers like pounce, or ranged pull as lazy and an insult to people playing good positioning. So little is earned in the trenches where melee and tanks push the line.

Look, my post was for my own entertainment. All good, we can move on now. If you agree with my consumable idea, cool. I probably still won't play unfortunately but no one will miss me.
Genisaurus wrote:In any case, keep this inevitable-24-page-thread civil, and remember that we're not going to pay a bit of attention to this until T4.

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normanis
Posts: 643
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Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#79 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:43 am

so basicly u need full sovereign gear bis weapons to be able que ranked sc. and feel somehow usefull. nah not today. i will go and gear up destro premades. that carrot is even more far than to get invader just doing rvr.

Earthcake
Posts: 37

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#80 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:33 am

Opeteh wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:32 pm
It took me 400+ games to farm full Triumphant set (6th Vanq/Triump bonus is to good for zealot to give up on it) and I wouldn't repeat that expirience again.
It was a hellish grind requiring to have a good set like Sovering already on you if you wanted to stay alive as zealot (imo healing class with the lowest survivability in the game). I also didn't like the fact that every time I wanted to play it I had to respec RR from 3 Futile Strikes /4 Spiritual Refinement (as I normaly play) into 4 /3.
Sure there were also many players regulary filling your 6-men group that didn't wanted to learn that this is not AOE spaming mode or that you need to invest in survivability to not be the reason for your side to lose a match.
On the other hand, nowhere else have I learned so much about the limits and possibilities of mine and other classes than by playing ranked games. Ranked games are on completely different level.
This is the reason i queue ranked : to learn how to play better

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