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Lack of Order in ranked

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Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

Poll: What would encourage you to play more ranked?

Improved gear
21
26%
Reduced gear cost
16
20%
Higher rewards per sc
14
17%
Ability to duo q (I know the obvious problem with this one)
2
2%
Other (please specify)
28
35%
Total votes: 81

User avatar
Earthcake
Posts: 81

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#51 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:47 pm

Jabba wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:43 pm
Earthcake wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:36 pm
As order u r often paired with snb tanks doing 4k dmg when both zealots r each doing 19-20k.

Would u queue 45min for that experience ?
This is the same for both sides, there are potatoes playing both sides. Except destro have longer queues for the same rubbish games because order at least get pops when they queue.
There is no denying that. But the amount of 2h tanks is infinitly higher destro side.

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User avatar
Sybreal
Posts: 32

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#52 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:21 pm

Earthcake wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:36 pm
As order u r often paired with snb tanks doing 4k dmg when both zealots r each doing 19-20k.

Would u queue 45min for that experience ?
This right here is one of the reasons I don't even consider doing solo ranked. Not on my healer and not on my tank. The whole "Oh god this guy is a SnB tank gg" mentality is toxic. People seem to think if you aren't BiS then you shouldn't queue for ranked. Even though you need to do them to get BiS gear. I don't want to have to run a dumb 2h tank build for people not to instantly rage as soon as the SC starts.

Also, I think people are translating their normal SC experiences (e.g. Order getting roflstomped in most SCs) to what would happen if they queued for ranked. I kept score of my normal SCs yesterday and it was 4 wins 11 losses. 2 of those wins were 500-400+ games we barely won. Most of those losses had destro camping us in our war camp. It was pretty easy to get top protection and/or obj score since order doesn't seem to know how to do anything other than whack black orcs, so at least I got some emblems out of those.

Sulorie
Posts: 5260

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#53 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:24 pm

oaliaen wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:55 pm
*Hype mode on* As a 600+ matches player, yea..Cant wait for the unique rewards ;)
How do you even get so many ranked pops?
Dying is no option.

Sulorie
Posts: 5260

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#54 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:26 pm

Earthcake wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:47 pm
There is no denying that. But the amount of 2h tanks is infinitly higher destro side.
You mean those famous 2h tanks, who melt with their off set, stacked with str talis. :)
Dying is no option.

User avatar
Earthcake
Posts: 81

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#55 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:28 pm

The 4k dmg was an actual exemple, it happened.

And this "toxic" thing didn t even exist in my time. If u r doing something very wrong, and i m not talking about actual real time decision mistake cuz everybody makes mistakes there, but willingly forgoing any preparation in the hope of being carried by your teamates, then if ppl are telling u u did something wrong, it s maybe cuz u did...

Atropik
Posts: 601

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#56 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:28 pm

Sybreal wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:21 pm
I kept score of my normal SCs yesterday and it was 4 wins 11 losses.
Lucky you. As a soloing destro dps I can hope for 3 scs per day xd Regular scs i mean, not ranked. Ranked well, we used to have a line of 12-15 ppl.
Nicelook | Obey

User avatar
Earthcake
Posts: 81

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#57 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:30 pm

Sulorie wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:26 pm
Earthcake wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:47 pm
There is no denying that. But the amount of 2h tanks is infinitly higher destro side.
You mean those famous 2h tanks, who melt with their off set, stacked with str talis. :)
They are the tanks u want in ranked

User avatar
Sybreal
Posts: 32

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#58 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:38 pm

Atropik wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:28 pm
Sybreal wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:21 pm
I kept score of my normal SCs yesterday and it was 4 wins 11 losses.
Lucky you. As a soloing destro dps I can hope for 3 scs per day xd Regular scs i mean, not ranked. Ranked well, we used to have a line of 12-15 ppl.
Well I can only imagine solo destro SC queues since all I seem to go up against are premades.

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Ekundu01
Posts: 263

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#59 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:49 pm

Ranked solo que doesn't work here for a number of reasons and most of them are because of the player base we have here.

Doing 6 vs 6 is a completely different from zerging rvr (majority of what people do) or soloing. Most players don't like being told how to play or what spec to play and unless you are playing the right spec with the right gear for 6 vs 6 it will be a bad time. Most of the community doing 6 vs 6 are also very toxic and will blame everything they can on a loss even if they are the weak link. I think some people give it a shot they get yelled at for not having all the knowledge in the game before queing and they decide to write it off because you can go zerg in the lake and not have to deal with toxic attitudes.

Another part of the problem is population size. We don't have a giant pool of players to pull from and you have the majority of players doing open rvr, some doing scs, some in t1, some doing pve, and only a hand full of them are interested in small man fights and out of the ones that are interested in small man fights you have some that like ranked. Most are after the gear grind and since you need the gear from orvr to be able to wear the top end gear from city it is no wonder why players don't care about ranked when the rewards are sub par and gives 0 progression towards end game gear. We would probably need close to 3-4k players on all the time to even have a reasonable que time for ranked.

Gear gap/no info for proper specing also creates situations where fights are a blow out so fast that people quit after one wipe. The minimum now is full conq/dom minimum to que. You can't have a mix of unlocks it doesn't work. But on the same spectrum you have people in sov/warlord/invader queing because they are trying to min max some gear set up with a few pieces of ranked gear. Some classes in sov/warlord/invader will flat out roll some classes with the minimum gear que requirements. Ranked is supposed to be about who is better in a small man setting for competitive play and not who had more time to farm gear. The second part of this is proper specs. Your typical WB spec that most players are running don't work in small man yet people still run it because they don't know. This is the equivalent of bringing someone to a pve dungeon and not explain any fight and expect them to perform well.

I don't think ranked will ever be popular here, too many people have the mind set of wanting to play and spec the way they want and not for the game mode they are playing. If you don't put decent rewards for it most won't play it but if you put the best rewards in it you will drive people to play it but at the cost of players just playing it because they have to so you just get whining here on the forums about how bad it is yet they have to play it and it should be more pug friendly/any spec friendly. We get these complaints all the time for every weekend warfront because people don't want to face premades/group up. Middle ground rewards we have now we still have low population because the ones that only want the fort/city gear don't bother plus they can just zerg right up to city and not have to actually perform well.

Maybe do away with the one ranked sc and just make all SCs ranked. Everyone would have a MMR starting in t4 scs. Most of the player base doesn't like the 6 vs 6 scs. That was very clear the last time they did a weekend warfront as a 6 vs 6 map.
Trismack - Black Sheep

owin
Posts: 4

Re: Lack of Order in ranked

Post#60 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:08 pm

I haven't read every post yet but I'd like to add my thoughts on this as I do love doing ranked solo on order but a few issues that need to be addressed.

1. Gear requirements should be raised to vanquisher. Too many fresh 40's in conqueror with 5k hp that die in 2 seconds to anything that touches them.

2. Take ranked solo out of the join all. Too many people accidentally getting in because they hit join all. Then proceed to not really know how to be successful and then get yelled at by the toxic players that are queuing in full sov.

3. Rewards are complete garbage for most people. Either tweak the rewards or lower the costs.

4. I feel like giving extra medals for being top damage/heals/protection/db's would help in that.

5. Make your score performance based not team based. I can't tell you how many times I would get top heals in every solo q I do in a day but the mmr goes down hard because you're stuck joining with a bw or engi in full conqueror or dominator gear. Or stuck with certain tanks that queue every day and don't know how to play their class properly. You are basically penalized for something you can't control and it turns people off from queuing at all.

6. On order side a lot of people don't queue because they will do 1 game and get in with the worst tanks that don't know how to guard swap. but then the toxic people blame everyone else or tell everyone to delete their characters or not to queue. You will never stop the toxicity when it comes to competitive matches but might be able to tone it down with some of the other changes I suggested.

These are my thoughts on ranked solo. Ranked group is a whole other thing. I feel like that needs an overhaul as well as right now no one queues for that.

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