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Andack
Posts: 33

Re: MSH -

Post#41 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:43 pm

So now people are just openning subject based on their feeling ? If i cry a lot, maybe a GM will follow my claim ?

Same guys everytime, it's truly a pain to read.

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TreefAM
Posts: 521

Re: MSH -

Post#42 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:59 pm

Man this Hardkor fella is pretty good at whining both in and outside the game.
Doesn't sound that hardcore ngl

Hardkoar
Suspended
Posts: 242

Re: MSH -

Post#43 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:58 pm

You can forward all your personal attacks to me directly to my private box, don't derail the thread with your meaningless input. And if you want to duel me, just /bow in game if you can make it out of your warcamp without your pocket zerg. Unlike you, I don't hide my forum/character name, I'm easy to find.

ON TOPIC

The MSH needs to be fixed before moving on to working on a different class.
wonshot wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:20 pm
A few thourghts:
The overhaul seemed to be aimed at the class-mechanic by having a pet, and from community expectations of this being purely a ranged overhaul it also affected the melee spec(s).
IF the class identity is to have a strong pet useage (he is a herder after all) then the pet aspect of the class probably needed to be improved on.

However,
Overly tieing too much of the new goodies into the pet MIGHT create issues in the future. Example see how immobile magus and engineers are because without their turret they fall flat or find themselves to be way too situational of a class.

Now looking at the biggest pet-changes for the Melee version of the new Squigherder, the Morlale1 ability is one out of just a few morale abilities that has a lenght longer than the standard 10seconds. This buff has 15sec duration and the standard 60sec cooldown before you can use an other morale ability. Since this previous morale3 ability is now an M1 it gives a powerspike early in the fight for a pet-herder (ranged or melee but with a pet) where as other defensive options probably need to be used to counter this powerspike in pressure. (like a healer M1 to catch the spike damage) This gives pet-herders a visual burst to now look out for early in a fight, and it creates tempo.

Mixed with the M1 a pet-herder will probably use SquigFrenzy (60sec cooldown, 20sec uptime. Yet again burst on demand class mechanic you can tecnically pop as soon as you reach your target, you have no slayer/choppa rage bar you need to buildup, no combustion or dark magic you need to prebuilt, its just pure burst on demand available from the get-go.

Armordebuff tied to the pet, strikethrough tied to the pet, the pet multihitting for burst. All 3 of these seem like one too many, but if one has to go it would be at a cost of a trade-off and not just a pure nerf. I think the Strikethrough is welcome for MSH, but it is implimented wrongly in this first version of the overhaul. Instead give the Squigarmor the ability to covert Ranged strikethrough from gear into melee strikethrough and remove the 10% from the Horned squig. This will be a slight buff to aoe-petless SH, will allow for more gearing options & less "dead stats points" and open up for more pet-variation for the MSH not having to run Horned. Once again, fitting the identity of being a rich-availabilty loaded class with options and not restrictions.

Now the aoe corp debuff on Gassquig is interesting, and a good idea on paper for pet-variety. But destro already have a lot of other avenues to corp aoe debuffs and a very slim portion of the SH aoe damage is corp. This could probably be reworked to something else, if running a Gassquig pet aoe build was to be appealing. Maybe have gassquig lower the cooldown of Farty-squig (explode your current pet for yet an other aoe ability available) and if you like this idea, maybe there is a follow-up idea of having a pet mechanic of cycling through the pets for a benefit at the cost of managing your pet cycle. Who knows.

Alright taking a step back and lets get an overview, if the MSquigherder is trying to get the following identity and role:
- Utility-dps
- Acces to both melee and ranged
- Mobile RangedArchtype with the con of having no Jugga.
- Cooldown dependant & reliant class
- Slight debuffing role.
- Pet mechanic
- Cant outburst "pure damagedealers"

Then the burst of the class needs to be kept in check, yes WL was brutal for years and we are seeing some of the same with mSH and the coordinated strike(with 1min cooldowns!) happening on horned meatball build. The cooldowns stay true to the identity, but with so much debuffing, controlling, mobility and sticking-power having a 100-0 kill in a knockdown is probably overloaded, especially with armor and self-peel on top.

Move the strikethrough from the Horned pet into Gear-conversion, lower the duration of the pet-burst cooldowns abit to adress their uptime(same as Rampage needs). The tempo is fine and gives msh something unique in terms of role on top of debuffing and being the cooldown reliant class to match with the greenskin cooldown decreasers for thema.
Improving the pets are probably a good thing, but keep an option in there for situations where players get frustrated with the Pet AI or if the pet dies too quickly in largescale (cant balance the pet to be fair in both smallscale and largescale).

JarlBerzirk
Posts: 147

Re: MSH -

Post#44 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:06 pm

Have you ever actually played a mSH? Because i do. As soon as you leave squig armor you are dead. Period. Every time. The notion that mSH has all these tools because they can leave SA and whatnot seems like it works on paper, but in reality it just doesn't.

Hardkoar
Suspended
Posts: 242

Re: MSH -

Post#45 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:43 pm

Maybe you should ask someone that can actually play his class to help you be better, try Teefz.

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Nishka
Posts: 1038

Re: MSH -

Post#46 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:24 pm

JarlBerzirk wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:06 pm
Have you ever actually played a mSH? Because i do. As soon as you leave squig armor you are dead. Period. Every time. The notion that mSH has all these tools because they can leave SA and whatnot seems like it works on paper, but in reality it just doesn't.

No, you aren't dead if you have guard and heal. And you do nearly twice as much damage as an average ST BW/Sorc, and much of this damage is aoe. While having shittons of utility. If you DO get into trouble, you have 2 get out of jail buttons.
How is it even fair?
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"Well, once there was only chaos. You ask me, order's winning". - Grandmaster Siegfried Trappenfeld

Neverever
Posts: 122

Re: MSH -

Post#47 » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:36 pm

Nishka wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:24 pm
JarlBerzirk wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:06 pm
Have you ever actually played a mSH? Because i do. As soon as you leave squig armor you are dead. Period. Every time. The notion that mSH has all these tools because they can leave SA and whatnot seems like it works on paper, but in reality it just doesn't.

No, you aren't dead if you have guard and heal. And you do nearly twice as much damage as an average ST BW/Sorc, and much of this damage is aoe. While having shittons of utility. If you DO get into trouble, you have 2 get out of jail buttons.
How is it even fair?
Lol twice as much damage as an average ST BW/SORC ? Why would anyone take you even serious on this forums now ? No wonder, no one cared about your pointless whinings on the other thread

Orontes
Posts: 241

Re: MSH -

Post#48 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:06 am

Andack wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:43 pm
So now people are just openning subject based on their feeling ? If i cry a lot, maybe a GM will follow my claim ?

Same guys everytime, it's truly a pain to read.

I think the above quote sums up the heart of this thread.

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JarlBerzirk
Posts: 147

Re: MSH -

Post#49 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:25 am

Nishka wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:24 pm
JarlBerzirk wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:06 pm
Have you ever actually played a mSH? Because i do. As soon as you leave squig armor you are dead. Period. Every time. The notion that mSH has all these tools because they can leave SA and whatnot seems like it works on paper, but in reality it just doesn't.

No, you aren't dead if you have guard and heal. And you do nearly twice as much damage as an average ST BW/Sorc, and much of this damage is aoe. While having shittons of utility. If you DO get into trouble, you have 2 get out of jail buttons.
How is it even fair?
Have YOU played mSH at all? Because i can assure you even with all these magical i win buttons you claim the class to have, it doesn't work quite like you think. Ive been literally 2 shot WITH a guard and hots on me outside of squig armor. Youre literally the squishiest class in the game outside of SA with that spec.

JarlBerzirk
Posts: 147

Re: MSH -

Post#50 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 2:29 am

Hardkoar wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:43 pm
Maybe you should ask someone that can actually play his class to help you be better, try Teefz.
You're the one crying that you cant beat mSH and they are OP. Take your own advice and get better at fighting them. See how stupid of a comment that is?

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