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Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: MSH -

Post#91 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:25 pm

Jabba wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:21 pm
Hardkoar wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:34 pm
Spoiler:
Jabba wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:13 pm


Nothing to do with balance, just numbers.
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Potato PoTato.
Let's assume 20 people attacking something on one side, against 30 people attacking something on the other, you think those 20 people's output should be increased to match that of the 30? Simply because they are 20?

That's balance to you?

The fact that the 30 people do more damage than the 20, is nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with numbers.
Balance, to be achieved, it requires a metric, a pillar that defines it, if the pillar that defines balance is based on the number of damage output by a dps class, then you should strive to keep that number within the metric you have chosen.

Ex. MSh Skill X should never go above Y Number and below Z number to stay within the balance parameter . Currently is well above Y in terms of numbers, not only for it's own parameter but even in comparison to pure Melee dps classes.

What has been done here is take a class that was described as ranged and turned it into a tank, melee dps with range abilities and tons of get out of jail free cards with a poket guard pet.

Here in case most of you have forgotten the class description:
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Does this sound like what you are playing or what it has become?

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Jabba
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Re: MSH -

Post#92 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 4:43 pm

And look at the post I originally quoted. Your post bemoaning order never getting to go to IC during EU times for the last couple of weeks. Which has nothing to do with balance, or mShS
Tushi Psychotik Splatter Emoalbino Podge

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vanbuinen77
Posts: 117

Re: MSH -

Post#93 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:20 pm

As a wh you should be able to kill a msh if you get the jump and use all your skills.
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Twyxx
Posts: 913

Re: MSH -

Post#94 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:32 pm

But even if they couldn’t...
Balancing around 1v1? 🤔
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Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: MSH -

Post#95 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:37 pm

Balance is not build around 1v1, the devs have made this rather clear. No point discussing class X vs class Z. The issue is with the MSH outperforming pure mdps classes. Classes that can do NOTHING ELSE but be a melee dps class.

Imagine if shamanas or archemages were better ''mages'' than BW and SORC.
That is how idiotic it would be.

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Twyxx
Posts: 913

Re: MSH -

Post#96 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:42 pm

It’s fine in group.
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Hardkoar
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Re: MSH -

Post#97 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:07 pm

It's like I'm reading guardian WL claiming it was fine in groups cuz the pet dies from AOE when 10 choppas hit it...

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CeeJay89
Posts: 247

Re: MSH -

Post#98 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:20 pm

I'm not saying to nerf mSH, but the class as it stands very much resembles a spec widely considered broken by Destro and even many Order.

If it was an issue then, it's an issue now. Even moreso because mSH is viable in every format of the game while still being a terror in smallscale roaming, and having vastly more utility than said other class had. Order players who played it used the EXACT same excuses for why the class was fine, verbatim, that Destro is now. It wasn't.

It's not that mSH can be ridiculously tanky. It's not that mSH has more utility than any other class in the game. It's not that SH has more mobility than every other class in the game. It's not that their burst is marginally smaller, if not higher than WL. It's that the class has all of these at the same time.

If this is no longer an issue, then I'd like to request Torque's version of Guardian WL be reimplemented, and CS be reverted to its original Str scaling to go with it.

Also, the next time Macc hits me for 5k with a single "Git Em!", I'll screenshot it for you.

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Sponn
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Re: MSH -

Post#99 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:45 pm

Twyxx wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 5:32 pm
But even if they couldn’t...
Balancing around 1v1? 🤔
*Laughs in WE*

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Brutinho
Posts: 161

Re: MSH -

Post#100 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:05 pm

So there is a lot of misconceptions on this thread and mostly coming from a whining group of people. Not saying Order because there are people like this in both factions.

Not sure what really motivates them, might be that they got killed by the specific class they are trying to get nerfed or just a PoV based on leaderboards with no experience playing the actual class. I shouldn't be wasting my time writing this but I will indulge the few whiners.


If you 'feel' a class is overperforming post you points and explain why so, don't just bullet point all the class can do and expect anyone with a semblance of experience to believe there is access to all of that at any given time.
Hardkoar wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:58 pm
You only get behind bad players, or KD'd players, in anyway, it aint ''AW spamming..''

Here we are talking about a class, the MSH, that has no positional needs and does more single target damage than anything else. While retaining it's AOE, Tankiness, Mobility, ability to just go rdps on demand and kite and have access to a whole lot of other tools.

Can we please stop trying to somehow defend this sorcery? lol. The MSH is stupidly overwpowered, there is no way any respectable player can not see it.

ST Burst: You need to sacrifice a tactic in order for Git Em! to have descent damage
AoE: In order to maximize AoE capabilities you need to slot ABM (so no pet = no disarm, no armor debuff)
Tankiness: You need to build for it, you can't be all out dps and tanky at the same time. You also need to slot Sneaky Git
Mobility: Debatable: Yes, they have Squig Leap, but without M2 they are pervious to snares considerably reducing their ability to stay on target. They do have an OK channeled version of charging which I would trade any day as it often gets cancelled by slopes or bumping with tiny props on the ground (I would have removed Out of my Way all together as expressed on my proposal)
Going RDPS on demand: Looks like your experience is limited to T1 for the looks of it. You definitely can go out of Squig Armor if you wish, I mean it is your way of playing, but should you? never! It is suicide as you are lacking the range on kiting skills (old SWDW) and the survival tactics (Whazat behind you?! and/or Run Away!)

Note: SH and SW do not have AOE detaunt




PS:
wonshot wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:20 pm
Now looking at the biggest pet-changes for the Melee version of the new Squigherder, the Morlale1 ability is one out of just a few morale abilities that has a lenght longer than the standard 10seconds. This buff has 15sec duration and the standard 60sec cooldown before you can use an other morale ability. Since this previous morale3 ability is now an M1 it gives a powerspike early in the fight for a pet-herder (ranged or melee but with a pet) where as other defensive options probably need to be used to counter this powerspike in pressure. (like a healer M1 to catch the spike damage) This gives pet-herders a visual burst to now look out for early in a fight, and it creates tempo.
Excellent point!
And just as an FYI this is something experienced SH players are trying to revert it.
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