removing 160+ mainstat tactics

[CeeJay89]

Personally I wish ingame numbers across the board would be tweaked to make lazy tactic design (15% more damage! 50% more crit damage! Stats!) a thing of the past, and then redesign all the tactics to instead alter how abilities work in some unique way to personalize playstyle. Obviously this would be a huge project, though, and is more wishful thinking than anything.

[NSKaneda]

Spoiler:

I agree with adding the stat to the baseline of the class for freeing up a slot.

Sounds like something everyone could benefit from.

The problem is that it'd widen the gap between entry level T4 chars and end game ones. Everyone gets +160 as well as armour, renown and talisman bonuses, gear set mixes... Attaining 1100 of a main stat is not a problem now but it comes at a cost. Having extra 160 would result in hard cap (1200) being reached around mid T4 gear sets.

Imagine disparity of fresh conq wearing people (already with 160 bonus) going against 160+BiS crowd. Fun for veterans, nightmare for new toons.

they both go up by 160 so how exactly is that a disparity?

With +160 tactic, mid-T4 armour mix and pot you can get to 1100 right now. With end game gear quite a few ppl drop +160 as it's an overkill to go above soft cap but having basically extra tactic on all the time you can get the missing numbers with *power and rotfl-stomp weaker toons. Just like in the end days of live people did with sov-doom-warp mixes.

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*melee, magic, whatever

[lyncher12]

Spoiler:

The problem is that it'd widen the gap between entry level T4 chars and end game ones. Everyone gets +160 as well as armour, renown and talisman bonuses, gear set mixes... Attaining 1100 of a main stat is not a problem now but it comes at a cost. Having extra 160 would result in hard cap (1200) being reached around mid T4 gear sets.

Imagine disparity of fresh conq wearing people (already with 160 bonus) going against 160+BiS crowd. Fun for veterans, nightmare for new toons.

they both go up by 160 so how exactly is that a disparity?

With +160 tactic, mid-T4 armour mix and pot you can get to 1100 right now. With end game gear quite a few ppl drop +160 as it's an overkill to go above soft cap but having basically extra tactic on all the time you can get the missing numbers with *power and rotfl-stomp weaker toons. Just like in the end days of live people did with sov-doom-warp mixes.

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*melee, magic, whatever

so mid tier armour gets 1100 and a freed up tactic slot and end game gear gets a little extra stats above the soft cap (diminishing returns, btw). i fail to see the problem here.

[NSKaneda]

so mid tier armour gets 1100 and a freed up tactic slot and end game gear gets a little extra stats above the soft cap (diminishing returns, btw). i fail to see the problem here.

Diminishing returns are stats/2 over 1050 but *power still transfers 1:1. We can go back to this discussion if Wargrimnir's idea ever gets implemented.

[zulnam]

I agree with adding the stat to the baseline of the class for freeing up a slot.

Sounds like something everyone could benefit from.

And what stat U give a borc ? toughnes ? wouds ? str ?

Toughness, since that is the tank-specific tactic (all tanks have Rugged). I'm Da Biggest is more of a racial. Not sure where you got str from.

[CountTalabecland]

People are talking about Str/WS but the Greenskins wounds flat stat tactic is one of the best tactics if we're just looking at which flat stat tactics ppl actually use (no one uses the various flat resists buff racials).

With the current meta and all the armor pen around, its the most bang for your buck by a wide margin. Dwarf's AI armor is a distant 2nd. Extra 660 armor is a pretty strong stat increase.

So would you also get rid of the useful racials? Just curious as I see those as the two best stat increasers next to Choppa/Slayer getting WS/Str at the expense of toughness they don't need.

[Twohandernoob]

How are so many saying no? Are you all so in love with numbers that you'd prefer numbers over actually having more tactical options and builds??

For the first time in history I agree entirely with Wargrim, build them into progression/armours and have 4 slots for actual tactics

[wargrimnir]

so mid tier armour gets 1100 and a freed up tactic slot and end game gear gets a little extra stats above the soft cap (diminishing returns, btw). i fail to see the problem here.

Diminishing returns are stats/2 over 1050 but *power still transfers 1:1. We can go back to this discussion if Wargrimnir's idea ever gets implemented.

I'm not terribly enthusiastic about it, just something I've heard suggested before. Some of the super basic tactics like that might was well be rolled into the class since people feel the need to take them by default, which in turn reduces choice in a way. I can definitely see how at the high end you don't really need a +160 stat tactic when you have other options to pick from and gear has you softcapped. Another idea floated was removing these flat tactics and implementing renown tactics that have different stats on them and you could pick one of each, I think this would be interesting too. Instead of being able to take 160STR for example, having to pick between two 80pt stats instead. Using the two renown tactic slots for these also frees up the career tactics for more interesting effects and builds.

Don't expect everything I comment on to be implemented, there's a lot of other people on the team that have hands in this stuff as well.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Interesting idea, but I feel like this would have a lot of unintended consequences in terms of balance that add a bunch of work to smooth out.

You're basically giving a free tactic slot to ~70% of classes, potentially allowing some classes not to have to choose between really strong tactics or open up some broken combos that were previously infeasible or required a sacrifice in stats. Classes that have other passive stat tactics would take those instead and come away with a free stat buff. Some classes have more "good" tactics to work with, others are fairly limited. At the end of the day some classes will benefit a lot more from this than others and I think it'd be hard to see all those interactions.

Certainly would shake things up though.

[oaliaen]

no.