Total lack of WH versatility

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Aezron
Posts: 36

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#131 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:58 pm

Very interesting to see the old trees!
When you think about it it makes a lot of sense to have the lightly armored (primarily) singel target "glass cannon" classes be very threatening if left unopposed, considering they die very very fast as soon as someone fights back (and now, often even before killing their opponents themselves..)
It would be interesting to see how WE/WH would perform if some of their power was put back. As it is right now, many classes are very difficult to fight even 1v1, especially if they survive the inital KD and starts fighting back.

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Miszczu5647
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Posts: 420

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#132 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:01 pm

Thats what I had in mind when telling "Learn history". Look at 2008 Sharpened edge. Compare how Torqe use it to create Bleeding Edge we have today.
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sighy
Posts: 163

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#133 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:42 pm

Miszczu5647 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:01 pm
Thats what I had in mind when telling "Learn history". Look at 2008 Sharpened edge. Compare how Torqe use it to create Bleeding Edge we have today.
Hmm simply changing Bleeding Edge from pen buff to main target shred might go a long way, in the way of providing group utility, while keeping it relatively same power in the mano e mano world.

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Tabelrel
Posts: 36

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#134 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:49 pm

Rumpel wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:58 am
Tabelrel wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:43 pm
Shanell wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:10 pm


Do you mean riposte should work like slayer's "reckless gamble", choppa's' "Hurtin' Time" and SW's "Glass arrow"? It sounds interesting if so.
WE's parry could do little damage to her to pock Taste of Blood tactics for +15% damage increase for 10 seconds and WH's parry could proc his tactics "Blessed Blade" that increase his AP by 50%.
From what i understand, there is an internal cooldown on the riposte tactic, so while the WH or WE to that matter may riposte multiple attacks they only get the benefit of maybe 1. That certainly in the case of the WH, neuters their middle parry game, where due to parry/higher WS capabilities they would excel at. Less so the WE as that was always more designed around front loaded damage. But fairs points raised, i never really used the Riposte tactic on the WE and will happily bow to those with more experience of using it on live and on here. :D

There was also this on live, EoB on the WE, but can't rememeber if and what the WH equivalent was. Big downside EoS has replaced it so give up charge/stealth for it, most probably not.

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Just for historical interest:

WH Mastery Trees from 2008/2009
2008: http://web-old.archive.org/web/20080912 ... .aspx?id=9
2009: http://web-old.archive.org/web/20090826 ... .aspx?id=9

WE Mastery Tree from 2008/2009
2008: http://web-old.archive.org/web/20080912 ... aspx?id=22
2009: http://web-old.archive.org/web/20090826 ... aspx?id=22
Thanks for old trees!

Edit: Old Frenzied Mayham tactic looks sweet, 3% crit per Bloodlust. o0 WE is totally lagging crit compared to its playstyle
Yep and increased pain also seemed to build crit %, although Wardb lists 2 versions of it in the tactic list.

Kiss of Doom added a 25% proc chance to kisses. Reading some of Taransula's archived BlogtheWitch posts he always ran KoD as a tactic but couldn't figure out why but with this implementation makes more sense.

Aload of the abilities also had no cooldowns whereas now they are 10 sec's etc
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Rumpel
Posts: 317

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#135 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:17 pm

Sad seeing it now.
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Tabelrel
Posts: 36

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#136 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:48 pm

Looking at the 2008 tress and the abilities it is clear that the original design intent of both WE\WH was to be able to shutdown healers, but that has been lost and now we fight solo\duo battles in the lakes with each other but without the original reason for which they were designed.

So.. do you take the big leap and give the WE\WH the ability again to shutdown healers and give them back their original intent or do you tinker with abilities here and there that give some damage back to fight other melee classes but not healers classes and therefore not the original intent of the class.

Admittedly, if i was was a dev/owner of game i would think someome has suggested chucking a shark into a tank of my goldfish and do i want to take it back in this direction, but maybe worth a little consideration. If they don't i'm cool with that just will continue with some fun solo ganking :D
Last edited by Tabelrel on Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Rumpel
Posts: 317

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#137 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:55 pm

Could be also a solution for warband relevence.
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abezverkhiy
Posts: 264

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#138 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 8:40 am

Tabelrel wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:48 pm
Looking at the 2008 tress and the abilities it is clear that the original design intent of both WE\WH was to be able to shutdown healers, but that has been lost and now we fight solo\duo battles in the lakes with each other but without the original reason for which they were designed.

So.. do you take the big leap and give the WE\WH the ability again to shutdown healers and give them back their original intent or do you tinker with abilities here and there that give some damage back to fight other melee classes but not healers classes and therefore not the original intent of the class.

Admittedly, if i was was a dev/owner of game i would think someome has suggested chucking a shark into a tank of my goldfish and do i want to take it back in this direction, but maybe worth a little consideration. If they don't i'm cool with that just will continue with some fun solo ganking :D
I hope this post won't be overlooked by those with powers to make decisions. A very good summary and analysis makes me want to shake Tabelrel's hand.

For now many WH/WEs who do not consider ganking as something they enjoy will keep their assasins dusting on shelves. Hopefully not for long - proposals about the subject have been already made in respective part of the forum.
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Sulorie
Posts: 5265

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#139 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:18 am

You ever thought, it might be the case, that they changed the trees for a reason? Could it be, that they were ... too strong?
Dying is no option.

abezverkhiy
Posts: 264

Re: Total lack of WH versatility

Post#140 » Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:34 am

Sulorie wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 9:18 am
You ever thought, it might be the case, that they changed the trees for a reason? Could it be, that they were ... too strong?
I beg to differ! 2 reasons:

1) they were changed in the past game environment. Every class was different back then
2) teams that managed the game then and now are like day and night so I would not rely on past team's judgements
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