WLs Are In A Bad Place Now.

[Lithenir]

Saying you can't found a build without pounce is saying you can't manage to kill without it and with pull, charge and good target focusing you don't really need all the Time it. The only main problem i see is the 25% tactic which is very usefull and if you don't have pounce...
Maybe pet armoire debuff could be a solution? Do you have numbers?

With 13pt Axemen and 11pt Guardian the pet has a 20s 940 armor debuff.
With 9pt Hunter the armor debuff has 13xx, don't remember the exact amount.

[Gurf]

Of course there are builds without Pounce, but I have similar level Slayer and without Pounce Slayer is better in every way, better damage, better heal debuff, doesn't have to rely on unreliable pet for cc and damage. With tactic and rage management Slayer can be more tanky and better defenses (parry) and better 1v1 Vs melee when spec into heal.

The only reason why I would play WL is it can't be shut down as easily by tanks and ranged, but without Pounce you are relying solely on your Lion to give you any kind of edge there and most range will destroy you if they know what they are doing. Without Pounce a WL is second rate and also for pure variety and fun there is no point playing without it in my view, certainly no point playing it over a Slayer.

Also in Loner Pounce is one of your best escape tools when focussed, which the SH won't feel as they have a ton of other things to use to escape under pressure.

[Lithenir]

Ranger who know what they are doing will shut down everyone without being touched, even with the old 65ft pounce. So bringing this to the equation is mere pointless.

The attitude of this forum is so bad. Everyone is just crying when there favorite class is touched instead of seeing new chances. Even when someone brings up it is not that bad they come with new things to "prove" they are right... Like Gurf does. First it's about DoK, I told I killed one without armor debuff, now you bring up new things.
The standard guardian build is still untouched so you still can play it. The rest needs adaption from the player and the actual ability to think and try out different things.... But sadly everyone just wants their classes untouched instead it's a dps boost

[Gurf]

Ranger who know what they are doing will shut down everyone without being touched, even with the old 65ft pounce. So bringing this to the equation is mere pointless.

The attitude of this forum is so bad. Everyone is just crying when there favorite class is touched instead of seeing new chances. Even when someone brings up it is not that bad they come with new things to "prove" they are right... Like Gurf does. First it's about DoK, I told I killed one without armor debuff, now you bring up new things.
The standard guardian build is still untouched so you still can play it. The rest needs adaption from the player and the actual ability to think and try out different things.... But sadly everyone just wants their classes untouched instead it's a dps boost

Wow you killed a DOK, he was probably rr40 with intelligence talis slotted, congrats.

I don't believe you play a WL if you are happy with the changes, probably a ranged Des player trolling

[Sundowner]

If I want to play mara I log destro and play mara, when I want to play WL I log on order and play WL. Lithenir IDK about you, but WL had very distinct playstyle and it was major factor in class appeal, almost no one liked that change. It did not open "new builds", it changed playstyle so that you either play WL without HD or without pounce if you want to have at least some viability. and also pet 800 armor debuff is nothing compared to 1500 from elf.

and also, yes, guardian cookie-cutter build was not touched, but build for ranked/DD smallscale was deleted, so please consider that. limiting builds for no apparent reasons, when class clearly was not OP and no one complained about, was not step in right direction. We should strive for all classes to have many builds, not limit them

[Lithenir]

Since he dropped royal shard I doubt he was rr40.
I am playing WL as main since 10-11 years and I am just excited to try out different builds since know you can actually play guardian axeman because of the pounce on guardian. Sick of playing the same 2 builds since 11 years.

And I am mostly playing mostly sc/smallscale.

But I don't care anymore. Happy crying. I'm out.

[Sundowner]

I'm out.

Good

[Nosun]

My personal experience playing a wl alt occasionally pretty much aoe spec all the time with no cooldown on pounce to around rr60 or so was good. I cant speak to single target as i have never liked dealing with the pet but I would rather have the full range on pounce back than the new short range with damage being added back.

[Naelar]

RIP, 'I win!' button...

[Gurf]

My personal experience playing a wl alt occasionally pretty much aoe spec all the time with no cooldown on pounce to around rr60 or so was good. I cant speak to single target as i have never liked dealing with the pet but I would rather have the full range on pounce back than the new short range with damage being added back.

Yes I can live with the tree change, even though it has nerfed my favourite build, but the range on Pounce is what irks me the most as most aoe hits for 30ft anyway so 45ft is too short. People can say I'm crying or whatever, but me and probably a bunch of other people will probably just play Slayer instead, or if starting out just play Mara with it's better survivability and utility, or SH with all the tricks and fun play style it offers.