Recent Topics

Ads

[Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Let's talk about... everything else

Moderators: Developer, Management, Web Developer

User avatar
teiloh
Posts: 625

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#181 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:14 pm

cynicprophet wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:41 pm
Martok wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:11 pm
cynicprophet wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:11 pm
yea i mean for a player who is playing for a while he shouldnt be playing like a newbie thats what im saying what he is doing to community is disservice by giving class builds without being played them ever.He has 0 6v6 experience, 0 warband experience he is just a solo chad.

Wow! Such inciteful and relevant commentary! Yeah, that is exactly what we need more of on these forums, petty insults and personal attacks on other players! Keep up the good work, man!
so much for the sensetive people i get it, truth can hurt sometimes but you gotta endure
Shifting goalposts:

"You need RR80s on both sides to comment!"

"So what if you have multiple RR80s on both sides? I don't like your gameplay"

lol

Ads
Neverever
Posts: 145

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#182 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:23 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:28 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:17 pm

These are popcorn threads. We're not interested in getting involved aside from poking at them occasionally.
Nothing good comes from making public statements about balance. The forums have proven repeatedly that open discussion about balance is inevitably tainted by bias oftentimes not even thinly veiled. No matter which statement we make leaning towards one balance suggestion or the other, it will lead to dissent. There are people arguing from several perspectives, whether that be open bias, positions of skill, under geared players dying faster than they think it's reasonable, scoreboard evaluators, etc and so on.

We will make our own evaluations internally and adjustments will show up in the patch notes when they're appropriate.
Time to move on

User avatar
wachlarz
Posts: 541

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#183 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:29 pm

Akalukz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:02 pm
wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:17 pm
Akalukz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:14 pm


To a degree possibly. The problem is that it has little draw back for as much utility and dps that it has. I suggest putting in a few "blocks" to bring back in line with other classes. The only thing worse than an underperforming class on game balance is an overperforming one. Hence the words game balance
So what tree U suggest to nerf ? What tree must be un-playable ? 🤤
I suggest 2 things, c/d on all pets when one dies. Ranged KD require pet or 2 sec cast (or tactic to make on the move)
Go bb/be and go check how often pet die from aoe bosses. A tac for kd on move ? Who will use this great tac ?

User avatar
Akalukz
Posts: 994

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#184 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:32 pm

wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:29 pm
Akalukz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:02 pm
wachlarz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:17 pm


So what tree U suggest to nerf ? What tree must be un-playable ? 🤤
I suggest 2 things, c/d on all pets when one dies. Ranged KD require pet or 2 sec cast (or tactic to make on the move)
Go bb/be and go check how often pet die from aoe bosses. A tac for kd on move ? Who will use this great tac ?
WL Pet = single cooldown - fair comparison

KD Tactic - i believe a lot would take it. Possibly make it a dual tactic increase range + on the move.

Bosses damage no comparison.
-= Agony =-

Draugris
Posts: 315

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#185 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:33 pm

Maybe you should take into consideration that Zarbix first interest is not class or server balance but the entertainment of his viewers. He is a lot soloing or running around in duos. This game is made for group/wb based PvP and I don´t see what qualifies him to talk about balance, he is just a dude with an opinion like most of us. There are a lot of people here who play this game for a long time that are more knowledgeable and more trustworthy than him in that regard.
Live: Carroburg -> Santorro (WH), The first Guard (TfG)

User avatar
Vri
Posts: 208

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#186 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:39 am

Draugris wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:33 pm
Maybe you should take into consideration that Zarbix first interest is not class or server balance but the entertainment of his viewers. He is a lot soloing or running around in duos. This game is made for group/wb based PvP and I don´t see what qualifies him to talk about balance, he is just a dude with an opinion like most of us. There are a lot of people here who play this game for a long time that are more knowledgeable and more trustworthy than him in that regard.
knowledgeable and more trustworthy ? have you tested him ? did you run a background check ?

User avatar
teiloh
Posts: 625

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#187 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:13 am

Xergon wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:01 pm
U realize gear of a target basically does not matter for Fester damage ?
Toughness and chance to be crit don't matter?

User avatar
Wam
Posts: 763

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#188 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:33 am

teiloh wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:42 pm
Wam wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:56 pm
Even boosted a MSH will be doing less than a proper sl or BW... yet people argue MSH are "OP"

I know good dps players on both sides, and i agree they are good pugkillers doesnt make them OP... choppa and mara is equally good if not better.

Id rather bring BIS choppa/mara... and if i was against id rather avoid the BIS RSH over MSH'S...

Interupt big bouncing you just neuterd them... taunt, (kotbs got another interupt) KD, Punt... WL, Engi have interupt... there is so much counterplay.

MSH op is a meme, that many puggies like to use as a excuse for losing.
BB is core and on a 8s timer even without CD reducer, and it costs significantly less AP than WA/WB, while doing similar damage. It also has significantly more mobility than any class in the game and has tons of escape tools/utility. I'm assuming at least one MSH is running PD as well so that will gimp their scoreboard numbers but it goes without saying that PD is an essential tactic.

For their role in RvR having Pounce on MSH is a far greater strategic advantage than having it on a pure DPS class, generally, unless you have massed WLs coordinating pounce - which has its own counters.

Another thing is that the Squig's AOE is all 30 foot radius. Channels aside, a Squig can in theory always stand 5 feet outside of Order melee blob spammable radius and deal close to maximum damage. Well out of SM/WL/KOTBS interrupt range as well. This is a huge advantage especially on a class that is as durable and mobile as a MSH. As someone who always advocates people learning their ranges and positioning better I think you would appreciate this the most.
big bounce animation is very noticable... and easy to interupt with taunt from tanks or roar from WL etc if you know how much it will effect them... without BB MSH is pretty bad comparing it to other classes in capable dps players hands.

msh is a nice tool and has decent mobility / surviability but it doesnt do good choppa / sl / bw dmg... and relies heavily on support to be "competitive" with these other classes, a good bw will be doing close to 1.5-2 x the dmg of a MSH which has support. (It lacks heal debuff, its main source of dmg is very counterable, it just has decent mobility with pounce to be annoying) MSH is not really special compared to top Choppa/Mara/Sorcs etc.
Wamizzle Guild Leader [TUP]
Wamizzle Guild Leader [The Unlikely Plan]

Ads
User avatar
Wam
Posts: 763

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#189 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:39 am

Akalukz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:53 am
Wam wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:56 pm
emiliorv wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:11 pm


Easy to explain...mSHs are excellent pugkillers (high mobility + aoe) => since order is mostly pugs...pugkillers become OP
Even boosted a MSH will be doing less than a proper sl or BW... yet people argue MSH are "OP"

I know good dps players on both sides, and i agree they are good pugkillers doesnt make them OP... choppa and mara is equally good if not better.

Id rather bring BIS choppa/mara... and if i was against id rather avoid the BIS RSH over MSH'S...

Interupt big bouncing you just neuterd them... taunt, (kotbs got another interupt) KD, Punt... WL, Engi have interupt... there is so much counterplay.

MSH op is a meme, that many puggies like to use as a excuse for losing.
I see it more along the lines of the have so many tools / specs and can be viable in all aspects of game playe, where as other classes are not.
It does have some nice and unique tools, especially when it come to movement... but its uniqueness the bad gas was nerfed in past so its watered down version, it lacks heal debuff, can be rooted np... its main attack taunted and denied. So I think that makes it fairly balanced due to how much counterplay it has, how much over reliance it needs from teammates... it doesnt have a broken mechanic which puts it far above other classes it competes with.

Its versatile which is a good thing, mara is also versatile... Choppa can be good in small and large also.

The other classes which are not viable in all aspects just need tweaking and fine tuning to be more competitive.
Wamizzle Guild Leader [TUP]
Wamizzle Guild Leader [The Unlikely Plan]

User avatar
Akalukz
Posts: 994

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#190 » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:03 am

Wam wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:39 am
Akalukz wrote:
Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:53 am
Wam wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:56 pm
Spoiler:
Even boosted a MSH will be doing less than a proper sl or BW... yet people argue MSH are "OP"

I know good dps players on both sides, and i agree they are good pugkillers doesnt make them OP... choppa and mara is equally good if not better.

Id rather bring BIS choppa/mara... and if i was against id rather avoid the BIS RSH over MSH'S...

Interupt big bouncing you just neuterd them... taunt, (kotbs got another interupt) KD, Punt... WL, Engi have interupt... there is so much counterplay.

MSH op is a meme, that many puggies like to use as a excuse for losing.
I see it more along the lines of the have so many tools / specs and can be viable in all aspects of game playe, where as other classes are not.
It does have some nice and unique tools, especially when it come to movement... but its uniqueness the bad gas was nerfed in past so its watered down version, it lacks heal debuff, can be rooted np... its main attack taunted and denied. So I think that makes it fairly balanced due to how much counterplay it has, how much over reliance it needs from teammates... it doesnt have a broken mechanic which puts it far above other classes it competes with.

Its versatile which is a good thing, mara is also versatile... Choppa can be good in small and large also. [/spoiler]

The other classes which are not viable in all aspects just need tweaking and fine tuning to be more competitive.
This is probably more true than not.
-= Agony =-

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], mogt and 12 guests