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[Zarbix] Talking about class balance

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cynicprophet
Posts: 59

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#161 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:11 pm

Vri wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:05 pm
cynicprophet wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:59 pm
Vri wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:57 pm

Asking why you are clearly soured towards Zar has nothing to do with "offensive facts".
he can easily comment about the classes he didnt play and even advice builds to people,also watching from his gameplay he is a newbie and yet try to comment about balance changes, how things should be or what not, no need to idolize average joe players.

As for zar being a newbie, he has been around longer than i can recall... i think he even has a server shut down video of him hanging out with other players during December 2013.
yea i mean for a player who is playing for a while he shouldnt be playing like a newbie thats what im saying what he is doing to community is disservice by giving class builds without being played them ever.He has 0 6v6 experience, 0 warband experience he is just a solo chad.

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balvor877
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Posts: 278

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#162 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:13 pm

cynicprophet wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:11 pm
Vri wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:05 pm
cynicprophet wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:59 pm

he can easily comment about the classes he didnt play and even advice builds to people,also watching from his gameplay he is a newbie and yet try to comment about balance changes, how things should be or what not, no need to idolize average joe players.

As for zar being a newbie, he has been around longer than i can recall... i think he even has a server shut down video of him hanging out with other players during December 2013.
yea i mean for a player who is playing for a while he shouldnt be playing like a newbie thats what im saying what he is doing to community is disservice by giving class builds without being played them ever.He has 0 6v6 experience, 0 warband experience he is just a solo chad.
So now you are attacking the streamer because you dessis are running out of arguments? Lol, right...

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jonspidy
Posts: 90

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#163 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:20 pm

Vri wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:53 pm
jonspidy wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:48 pm
Vri wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:45 pm
This ^
Yeaaaa.... in that case revert all order classes to their live state before all the "Reworks". They clearly weren't OP destro just needed to L2P
Funny how the whining from destro worked to get most order classes nerfed, when something on their side is over-performing its "you're just bad L2P"

... the hypocrisy is real
Come on, WL changes did not happen over night. This witch hunt against Squigs is insane. Again, Order is making it seem like a roaming horde meatballs are breaking the game and killing as they wish, meatball death squads, turning order into mushy piles of salty tears. 9 out of 10 squigs are not geared, the ones that are have put in the time.
The exact same could be said about WL's.. in fact its still going on to this day. There are still posts about how OP the WL is even after all its changes. Veteran WL players have made tons of posts about its current state and how bad it is, i play both sides and i see more squig groups roaming then i do WL's and theres a reason for that.. the class is overtuned and over-preforming.

If 9 of 10 squigs are undergeared and still able to kill geared players then that also says something about the class, and NO, its not a "L2P" thing. If the roles were reversed where a undergeared WL would burst down and kill a Inv/Sov SH the forums would be filled with destro players complaining about it. Geared WL's have issues killing half geared SH's.

The WL's that are geared have also put in the time only to see the class beaten with the nerfbat so many times. I'm also using the WL as an example because of your statement. Try killing one on a WH... total nightmare.
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balvor877
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Posts: 278

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#164 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:27 pm

They recently nerfed SWs as well. Broadhead Arrow can no longer be used in assault stance.

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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#165 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:47 pm

Gurf wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:06 am
Wam wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:37 am MSH is so reliant on other classes to perform in competitive enviroment and has hard counters too... I love all the meme and whine material because its hilarious but on topic you shouldn't give the devs biased and inaccurate information regarding the class... can MSH be annoying sure... everything can in the right hands and played correctly... does it make it more scary than a proper choppa or mara no not really. If you think MSH is OP then slayer is also OP 8-) both pretty straight forward classes but some people struggle to put out the damage numbers they should be doing.

In our alliance i team with some competent dps players, and if i was against them id rather face the MSH stack than their choppa's or marauders alts.

You say this as you now main a MSH, the class in aoe spec is ok in theory, the problem comes in that because Destro has 2 aoe cooldown decreasers it means that Big Bouncing is pretty much spammable, meaning that MSH can now put out damage close to Slayer levels while retaining double to survivability and triple the cc and utility of a Slayer. Basically the cooldown decreasers make MSH OP.

That is just to AOE warband spec, the 1v1 is even worse with Pet hitting for double what a Lions does without having to sacrifice anything to get that damage. Overall the class is just completely broken in every spec.
You understand they are overly reliant on the CDR to be close to effective to a SL? and if you have enough interupts they are neutered... a well geared choppa or mara outshines a MSH that is boosted by others :lol:

Even in a party with bork/choppa (which they should be in otherwise they pretty much wasted) its good synergy but its not insane damage (compared to SL/BW) also morale bombs nerfed so it loses what it use to have going for it with the massive burst potential.

Order make MSH out to be OP (it can be solid) but i still don't remember names of "top" MSH... compared to other classes which you know are more of a threat. I understand being pounced on is scary for some of you, but destro players had to put up with it for years from white lions when they was buffed on steroids no less.
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Wam
Posts: 803

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#166 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:56 pm

emiliorv wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:11 pm
Wam wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:37 am
the best SH's was all ranged SH's and anyone experienced knows who they are... but who are all the OP MSH i hear so often about?
Easy to explain...mSHs are excellent pugkillers (high mobility + aoe) => since order is mostly pugs...pugkillers become OP
Even boosted a MSH will be doing less than a proper sl or BW... yet people argue MSH are "OP"

I know good dps players on both sides, and i agree they are good pugkillers doesnt make them OP... choppa and mara is equally good if not better.

Id rather bring BIS choppa/mara... and if i was against id rather avoid the BIS RSH over MSH'S...

Interupt big bouncing you just neuterd them... taunt, (kotbs got another interupt) KD, Punt... WL, Engi have interupt... there is so much counterplay.

MSH op is a meme, that many puggies like to use as a excuse for losing.
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Gurf
Posts: 519

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#167 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:34 pm

Wam wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:47 pm
Gurf wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:06 am
Wam wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:37 am MSH is so reliant on other classes to perform in competitive enviroment and has hard counters too... I love all the meme and whine material because its hilarious but on topic you shouldn't give the devs biased and inaccurate information regarding the class... can MSH be annoying sure... everything can in the right hands and played correctly... does it make it more scary than a proper choppa or mara no not really. If you think MSH is OP then slayer is also OP 8-) both pretty straight forward classes but some people struggle to put out the damage numbers they should be doing.

In our alliance i team with some competent dps players, and if i was against them id rather face the MSH stack than their choppa's or marauders alts.

You say this as you now main a MSH, the class in aoe spec is ok in theory, the problem comes in that because Destro has 2 aoe cooldown decreasers it means that Big Bouncing is pretty much spammable, meaning that MSH can now put out damage close to Slayer levels while retaining double to survivability and triple the cc and utility of a Slayer. Basically the cooldown decreasers make MSH OP.

That is just to AOE warband spec, the 1v1 is even worse with Pet hitting for double what a Lions does without having to sacrifice anything to get that damage. Overall the class is just completely broken in every spec.
You understand they are overly reliant on the CDR to be close to effective to a SL? and if you have enough interupts they are neutered... a well geared choppa or mara outshines a MSH that is boosted by others :lol:

Even in a party with bork/choppa (which they should be in otherwise they pretty much wasted) its good synergy but its not insane damage (compared to SL/BW) also morale bombs nerfed so it loses what it use to have going for it with the massive burst potential.

Order make MSH out to be OP (it can be solid) but i still don't remember names of "top" MSH... compared to other classes which you know are more of a threat. I understand being pounced on is scary for some of you, but destro players had to put up with it for years from white lions when they was buffed on steroids no less.

It shouldn't be anywhere near Slayer/BW damage, it has no risk mechanic, will have over double the armour of an enraged slayer/BW and triple the cc, much more mobility and a dozen get out of jail cards if under pressure. Yet city after city you see similar level damage. Unlike Order with SM and SW synergy the reducers on Destro are just the press of a button, easymode, barely any teamwork or communication needed.

A good proportion of Slayer damage can be neutered also if you put it like that, you can interrupt Retribution, cleanse ID and shatter rampage. Any class can be shut down if you know how.

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teiloh
Posts: 691

Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#168 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:42 pm

Wam wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:56 pm Even boosted a MSH will be doing less than a proper sl or BW... yet people argue MSH are "OP"

I know good dps players on both sides, and i agree they are good pugkillers doesnt make them OP... choppa and mara is equally good if not better.

Id rather bring BIS choppa/mara... and if i was against id rather avoid the BIS RSH over MSH'S...

Interupt big bouncing you just neuterd them... taunt, (kotbs got another interupt) KD, Punt... WL, Engi have interupt... there is so much counterplay.

MSH op is a meme, that many puggies like to use as a excuse for losing.
BB is core and on a 8s timer even without CD reducer, and it costs significantly less AP than WA/WB, while doing similar damage. It also has significantly more mobility than any class in the game and has tons of escape tools/utility. I'm assuming at least one MSH is running PD as well so that will gimp their scoreboard numbers but it goes without saying that PD is an essential tactic.

For their role in RvR having Pounce on MSH is a far greater strategic advantage than having it on a pure DPS class, generally, unless you have massed WLs coordinating pounce - which has its own counters.

Another thing is that the Squig's AOE is all 30 foot radius. Channels aside, a Squig can in theory always stand 5 feet outside of Order melee blob spammable radius and deal close to maximum damage. Well out of SM/WL/KOTBS interrupt range as well. This is a huge advantage especially on a class that is as durable and mobile as a MSH. As someone who always advocates people learning their ranges and positioning better I think you would appreciate this the most.
Last edited by teiloh on Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Martok
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Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#169 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:07 pm

DP
Last edited by Martok on Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Blame It On My ADD Baby...

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Martok
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Re: [Zarbix] Talking about class balance

Post#170 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:11 pm

cynicprophet wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:11 pmyea i mean for a player who is playing for a while he shouldnt be playing like a newbie thats what im saying what he is doing to community is disservice by giving class builds without being played them ever.He has 0 6v6 experience, 0 warband experience he is just a solo chad.

Wow! Such inciteful and relevant commentary! Yeah, that is exactly what we need more of on these forums, petty insults and personal attacks on other players! Keep up the good work, man!
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