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Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

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Caduceus
Posts: 193

Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#1 » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:29 am

Hey all,

I'd like to addess an issue that is related to the Weekend Warfront's event tasks, of which this Weekend's Warfront 'Unforgiving Seas' serves as a great example.

First, let me state clearly that on the whole I think Weekend Warfronts are great. They are something to look forward to every week, and Weekend Warfronts incentivise players to group up and participate in the large variety of scenarios that Return of Reckoning has to offer.


So why does this great addition to the game sometimes turn into a source of much frustration for a lot of players?

I think the answer to this question can almost always be found in one or two problematic event tasks during certain Weekend Warfronts.
Even before entering a single scenario, simply looking at the list of event tasks is usually enough to identify such tasks.

This week's Weekend Warfront 'Unforgiving Seas' has the task "Win the Serpent's Passage scenario with 500 points", and it has to be done five times.


So what is wrong with this task?

A few things.

First, during the weekends, the event scenario tends to be a highly competitive environment. Almost every scenario features at least one premade group on each side. This is in itself actually a great thing. However, as these groups fight for victory, it quickly becomes apparent that the Serpent's Passage scenario is rarely finished at 500 points, and much more often ends when the timer runs out.

The net result is that groups are punished for having close-matched fights and I think this is highly undesirable. Players' progress stagnates and they are instead incentivised to stop playing and try again when the fights are more one-sided in their favor, thus making 500 point victories easier and allowing them to finish their event task.

This issue also reinforces itself, since even strong premade groups may have trouble finishing these sorts of tasks, causing them to continue queueing for longer, leading to my next point.

Second, the aforementioned discourages beginning players, despite their efforts to group up. An often repeated, but ultimately empty statement, even by some of the developers, is "Just find a group!" However, this does not suffice. There is a large group of players whose gear, skill and experience levels are simply not high enough to compete with many of the groups found in scenarios during the Weekend Warfront. Parrying the objections of this group (which I think are quite reasonable) with slogans like "Get good!", "Just roll class x/y/z!", "Grind harder!" is nothing other than elitism.

Getting steamrolled is never fun, but getting steamrolled and receiving nothing in return is reason for a lot of players to simply stop playing, and understandably so. This cannot be what is intended.


Conclusion/Solution,

In conclusion, the task described above, and others like it:

1. Discourage player participation, especially at low and intermediate experience levels,
2. Do not reward players for their hard work,
3. Discourage players to look a good fight.

The task mentioned above is only an example of some of the tasks I've come across over time.

They can sour what would otherwise be a fun Weekend Warfront, and I don't think this is necessary at all.
Problematic tasks are often easily identified even before entering a single scenario. Here are some criteria which I think have a tendency to be problematic:
(Note: for the sake of lengthiness these criteria weren't all discussed in this thread, but I will give examples if prompted)

1.Requiring landslide victories to complete (especially when such tasks need to be completed multiple times),
2.Encouraging behavior that is tactically unsound,
3.Encouraging players to act "out of role", i.e. healers or DPS running flags, holding baubles, etc.


What could serve as a general rule of thumb is that tasks should be progressable (though perhaps more slowly) even when one is losing or having close fights. If this were to lead to players finishing their tasks too quickly, it could always be an option to increase the amount of kills required to finish the event.

I think I have said enough, and I am curious to hear your thoughts.


Thanks for reading,

- Caduceus
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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Vri
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Posts: 209

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#2 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:57 am

If this is about the destro pre made with geared Black Orcs on NA friday night, that thrashed every order pug for over an hour, not sorry. Take the lose and move on.

lyncher12
Posts: 476

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#3 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:05 am

Didn't really have a problem unless the random pug moochers refused to run the part while we trapped them in their spawn

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Stophy22
Posts: 367

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#4 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:30 am

Kinda lost me halfway through but I think more thought out objectives or event trackers would probably be more important and less impactful on how the match is played.

I agree with closer fights because or more fighting because that's what is fun in the game is the whole killing people and using your character. Matches like serpents pass don't really promote this but the bringing of premades into an SC promote close fights because people rather tend to go for kills rather than get the objective (as it can be boring and dull to run a part, sit on a objective, or confines to rules that dont = depleting the enemies healthbars)

That being said, I think the dude above me said it best, "when trapped in spawn, run part" I'm sure you'll win with 500 points if that's what you are actively seeking.
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Valerious
Posts: 17

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#5 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:30 am

Ofc its frustrating gettin stomped, but its really easy to solve this Problem at least a bit.
First thing is it seems that a lot ppl didnt know how to win this sc or dont care about it.
"PtfO" its called!
And its not so hard to do, we have the /5 channel, just give it a try! Maybe you wont be able to build a full 6 man with this, but if you Manage to get 1 tank 1 MDPS and 1 or 2 healers AND play the objektive, it will be much better and you will win every 3rd one.
But what do ppl expect when facing 1 or 2 premades with 4 SWs, 3 Engis and 2 BWs???

Caduceus
Posts: 193

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#6 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:28 am

Vri wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:57 am
If this is about the destro pre made with geared Black Orcs on NA friday night, that thrashed every order pug for over an hour, not sorry. Take the lose and move on.
-
Valerious wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:30 am
Ofc its frustrating gettin stomped, but its really easy to solve this Problem at least a bit.
First thing is it seems that a lot ppl didnt know how to win this sc or dont care about it.
"PtfO" its called!
And its not so hard to do, we have the /5 channel, just give it a try! Maybe you wont be able to build a full 6 man with this, but if you Manage to get 1 tank 1 MDPS and 1 or 2 healers AND play the objektive, it will be much better and you will win every 3rd one.
But what do ppl expect when facing 1 or 2 premades with 4 SWs, 3 Engis and 2 BWs???

Dear readers, I would ask you to please read the post before replying to it.

If you had done so, it would be clear that the problem I described has nothing to do with losing or not wanting to group up.

Don't make false assumptions about my motivations, and more importantly, engage with the arguments that I present instead of inventing your own. (No Vri, I don't know who you are, nor do I play Order)
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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Vri
Suspended
Posts: 209

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#7 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:06 am

Caduceus wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:28 am
Vri wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:57 am
If this is about the destro pre made with geared Black Orcs on NA friday night, that thrashed every order pug for over an hour, not sorry. Take the lose and move on.
-
Valerious wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:30 am
Ofc its frustrating gettin stomped, but its really easy to solve this Problem at least a bit.
First thing is it seems that a lot ppl didnt know how to win this sc or dont care about it.
"PtfO" its called!
And its not so hard to do, we have the /5 channel, just give it a try! Maybe you wont be able to build a full 6 man with this, but if you Manage to get 1 tank 1 MDPS and 1 or 2 healers AND play the objektive, it will be much better and you will win every 3rd one.
But what do ppl expect when facing 1 or 2 premades with 4 SWs, 3 Engis and 2 BWs???

Dear readers, I would ask you to please read the post before replying to it.

If you had done so, it would be clear that the problem I described has nothing to do with losing or not wanting to group up.

Don't make false assumptions about my motivations, and more importantly, engage with the arguments that I present instead of inventing your own. (No Vri, I don't know who you are, nor do I play Order)
Dear OP, this is not the first time or the last. Please use search field.

Valerious
Posts: 17

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#8 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:44 am

It has ALWAYS been Part of the game to run into premades or when better players or just if SOMETIMES their are no premades, then it depends in Who has the better composition.
Yes, i m with u, its really frustrating gettin nothing ZERO renown for some SCs, but hm you should NOT change the mecanism we have. It will end in lesser pops, and nobody wants that. So if you play in Primetime on friday night, no way to win or finish the event, than just do something else and try it 1,5 hours later!
My earlier Post should not be aggressive, but it describes my own Feelings when i play sc especially at Weekend.
It is like it is, handle it or stop it.
AND btw the event rewards are nice, but it would NOT be the reason to win or loose an Engagement having this thing or not.

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Caduceus
Posts: 193

Re: Problematic Weekend Warfront Tasks

Post#9 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:57 am

My issue is that when premades run into each other, and have a good fight, the result is that very often neither side gets to progress their tasks.

That is my point in a nutshell.

Sure my group can stop spinning and try again at some other point, but why should we be discouraged from engaging in good fights this way?

And the fix is so obvious. Simply make the requirement 5 wins, instead of 5 wins with 500 points. Problem solved.

I can't see any reason for it being the way it is now, but I am open to your arguments.
"I watched a snail crawl along the edge of a straight razor. That's my dream; that's my nightmare. Crawling, slithering, along the edge of a straight razor... and surviving." - Colonel Walter E. Kurtz

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