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Shield DOK / WP

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Rydiak
Posts: 486

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#21 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:23 am

Range is the bane of shield spec, which is why I recommend spending RR points into Deft Defender in my guide. Lifetaps are also very dependent in general on the target they originate the heal from. If all you present to the shield-healers are tanks and other non-squishy targets (like mDPS with high parry) you will severely reduce their output. So though lifetaps aren't affected by healing debuffs, they are affected by far more things than casted heals are.
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sergteo
Posts: 3

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#22 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:29 am

Quick resume of this topic:

this guy knows to play his class - nerf the class

Saved you a lot of reading no need to thank me

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Aluviya
Posts: 54

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#23 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:09 am

Arbich wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:33 pm
Sulorie wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:00 pm
Mergrim wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:54 pm


Nope they are not fine, heal debuff should work on them like on fury of da green or energy of vaul.
Healdebuff does not work on FODG.

There is counter play, tanks just have to do their job.
Their dmg/heal is mostly aoe.
Aoe dot engi/magus will score top in damage compared to anyone else too, how do you judge those?
EoV is affected by outgoing and incoming healdebuff. FODG should work the same.
But EoV is also affected by healblesses, while DoK/WP healing is not.
I think their dmg is probably too high and should tone down a bit (tie it to a tactic or whatever).
I agree with this. In addition I believe the AP costs of the abilities need to be higher overall or the healing output needs to be a little lesser - especially for abilities that target the whole party and have no cd. And I disagree with some people here claiming that Shielded WP/DoK's are fine the way they are now for small scale - small scale was always the melee-meta. In a fight there is so much "theorycraft" about how to counter shielded WP/DOK in small scale but the fact is- in a regular battle you are almost always snared so a shielded DOK/WP's doesn't struggle much from kiting. And also RDPS are not a counter because you can practically negate BW and Sorc with just having a good cleanse job (which can be still provided by shielded DOK'S/WP'S) .

sergteo wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:29 am
Quick resume of this topic:

this guy knows to play his class - nerf the class

Saved you a lot of reading no need to thank me
Additionally I'd like to say something here that is just really a thing: People are dicussing and I don't understand why you try to denounce the people discussing. This is the discussion forum - if you don't agree -state your opinion or simply let the people discuss if they wish so. Posts like this are actually adding into the pool of unnecessary scrolling more than people stating their opinion.

Sever1n
Posts: 35

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#24 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:10 am

I dunno heals from WP are huge and they extremeky tanky. Heals from AM are decent end they extremelly squishy. Then people tell me get a wb, but who wb will take WP or AM in prior? Just check heal/shielding in end of city, end u will undearstand why wp/doc have 6! Slots in wb and AM 1. Thats just frustrating.
And i saw heals from WP to in my party, heals that fully restore hp of full party from almost zero, i believe docs have same crap. In conclusion they have damage, they have tankiness, they have heal and shields bigger than all, yes they not broken ofc.

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Sinisterror
Posts: 232

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#25 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:16 am

Sever1n wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:10 am
I dunno heals from WP are huge and they extremeky tanky. Heals from AM are decent end they extremelly squishy. Then people tell me get a wb, but who wb will take WP or AM in prior? Just check heal/shielding in end of city, end u will undearstand why wp/doc have 6! Slots in wb and AM 1. Thats just frustrating.
And i saw heals from WP to in my party, heals that fully restore hp of full party from almost zero, i believe docs have same crap. In conclusion they have damage, they have tankiness, they have heal and shields bigger than all, yes they not broken ofc.
All healers have that morale 2 and it is called rampagin siphon. Shield wp/dok feel very powerful. It's a shame that they gutted 2h/dw specs for both :E but im still impressed how good shield healing works in ror. Btw am is a great healer in right hands, desperation tactic on and 1 grp heal + eov will heal party close to full health.
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Valerious
Posts: 17

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#26 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 am

Lol i have the Feeling this Post is not about the class itself
Its about one player that is really good in doing what he does.
But no need to complain cause he plays 50% on both sides.....

Panodil
Posts: 319

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#27 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:25 am

Valerious wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 am
Lol i have the Feeling this Post is not about the class itself
Its about one player that is really good in doing what he does.
But no need to complain cause he plays 50% on both sides.....
+1
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ByzantineTime
Posts: 130

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#28 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:27 pm

Valerious wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:11 am
Lol i have the Feeling this Post is not about the class itself
Its about one player that is really good in doing what he does.
But no need to complain cause he plays 50% on both sides.....
Well this specific player is a good representative of what the class is capable, and in my opinion and others in this post its obviously broken.

every player can play any class, imagine a noob playing a broken class and getting rekt, and using this as argument why the class isn't good because the noob couldn't handle himself.
Last edited by ByzantineTime on Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ByzantineTime
Posts: 130

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#29 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Bloodmasked wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:31 am
ByzantineTime wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:25 am
Bloodmasked wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:16 am


Each transfer essence is doing 965 non-crit and 1362 crit in healing (group heal). Devour essence can double that output to one target I select (about 800 health per second for 5 seconds, 20s cooldown, versus 4 targets). Rend soul does anywhere from 6000 to 9296 healing in 3 seconds on construct (more with chosen debuff).
350% rend soul holy crap... :O those numbers are insane lol and you say its not op???
To shut down a shield WP/DOK requires coordination and good use of CC. This makes the class fun not OP. If you mindlessly bash against a shield WP/DOK (like you would to kill most other healers) then you will likely lose because they can out sustain you, if they have a guard then can probably out sustain you and a few of your friends. Examples have already been stated above such as a ranged dps who kills the shield WP/DOK simply by being outside of melee range, thus preventing them from doing any healing.
That's all very good on paper as I mentioned before.
Ranked SC is solo pug 6v6.
There is no coordination, a good way to counter a shield dok/wp, is a stagger from zealot/RP and tanks punting.
How many tanks punt healers? and you need RNG to get zealot/RP in your group, how many of them stagger these guys?
Way too low counters for this build, their damage output, healing output is way too big, in my opinion again it should be toned down a bit.

with the correct play any class can be countered also all those squiggies that being RANTED about, but it doesn't mean they are not overtuned.

You get 350% heal using, rend soul.
I main shaman + marauder.
Imagine my shaman getting 350% heal from, bleed fer me (damage heal dot) or, I'll take that (damage spell that heals), da green is the same tree like doks Sacrifice, but my dot + spell heals for only 150%, so why not 350% as well?
then we would get immediate rants about how OP and broken it is.. why can shaman dps + heal at the same time?? those would be arguments then.

my counter argument to this would be, if I heal as dps I don't really waste time much on dpsing but I need to spam ITT or smth, (350% for those would be OP), punt me, stagger me, ap drain me, on paper everything sounds wounderful, specially if 6 people sitting on discord and communicating, but the reality game wise it's different.


NOw in ranked solo 6v6,
imagine like I got yesterday, you get 2 shield doks, or 2 shield WPS, how do you counter them then?
the tanks must punt both of them??
and what if you don't get 2 zealots/2rps, who will stagger them?

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ufthakk
Posts: 77

Re: Shield DOK / WP

Post#30 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:01 pm

Iyvan! u hit this poor person to hard can u pls apologize ? :D

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