Shield DOK / WP

[Bloodmasked]

Then go and test FODG again, they changed something few patch ago, and now all debuffs work on it.

About magius/engi hardest class to master, 0 mobility. You have tons of useless engi/magius around, a few playing well is not a problem. Dok/wp shield are 2 button class.

This is woefully ignorant. I have both classes, and it's easy as hell to play a magus and put dots on everything, just as it's easy to hit someone and heal everyone around you. Shield dok/wp is no less hard. Both classes have a ton of potential when you get someone that knows how to play behind them. Both have their weaknesses and counters. For shield dok/wp keep them snared/kited, use absorbs, detaunts and defensives to reduce healing. Heal Debuff is using mitigation skills or just knocking them out of range. Range, range is your friend. They can't heal for crap unless they are in range AND hitting the right target to get that damage. They have a ton of downsides already compared to other healers.

Them hitting a pet to heal is that players fault for not controlling it better btw, it's not that healing is "too good". I see so many people put pets on fire and forget lazy mode.

I'll give you some facts.
Ranked match 6v6
Ivyans either DOK or WP
ON dok he sometimes deals more damage than both of the dps classes, 200k 250k DPS, and in heals its 350k-400k
FACT is he dealt 200k-250k gives a lot of pressure on the target, and the target dies quicker helping the team thats the fact and only by hitting the target, he heals his defensive targets for more than pure healers that is also a fact.

You can reason it out by saying detaunt, they can't heal if you counter them, fact is that is what they produce.
So if a ranged guy runs away from them they will just either keep going on him or focus a different easier target, but numbers don't lie, they deal too much.
Tanks can't punt them they need to punt the enemy tanks, on paper you reason it out but in game it's a different story currently it's OP.

I am a rr84 shield dok and I can tell you its no where near being OP. If it was OP then I wouldn't die in 3 seconds to a single WH.

[XsorrowerX]

Then go and test FODG again, they changed something few patch ago, and now all debuffs work on it.

About magius/engi hardest class to master, 0 mobility. You have tons of useless engi/magius around, a few playing well is not a problem. Dok/wp shield are 2 button class.

This is woefully ignorant. I have both classes, and it's easy as hell to play a magus and put dots on everything, just as it's easy to hit someone and heal everyone around you. Shield dok/wp is no less hard. Both classes have a ton of potential when you get someone that knows how to play behind them. Both have their weaknesses and counters. For shield dok/wp keep them snared/kited, use absorbs, detaunts and defensives to reduce healing. Heal Debuff is using mitigation skills or just knocking them out of range. Range, range is your friend. They can't heal for crap unless they are in range AND hitting the right target to get that damage. They have a ton of downsides already compared to other healers.

Them hitting a pet to heal is that players fault for not controlling it better btw, it's not that healing is "too good". I see so many people put pets on fire and forget lazy mode.

I'll give you some facts.
Ranked match 6v6
Ivyans either DOK or WP
ON dok he sometimes deals more damage than both of the dps classes, 200k 250k DPS, and in heals its 350k-400k
FACT is he dealt 200k-250k gives a lot of pressure on the target, and the target dies quicker helping the team thats the fact and only by hitting the target, he heals his defensive targets for more than pure healers that is also a fact.

You can reason it out by saying detaunt, they can't heal if you counter them, fact is that is what they produce.
So if a ranged guy runs away from them they will just either keep going on him or focus a different easier target, but numbers don't lie, they deal too much.
Tanks can't punt them they need to punt the enemy tanks, on paper you reason it out but in game it's a different story currently it's OP.

That's total damage, not dps. Their damage per second is not high and total damage is mostly fluff from constantly using smite aoe and multi target divine heal.

[Sulorie]

EoV is affected by outgoing and incoming healdebuff. FODG should work the same.
But EoV is also affected by healblesses, ...

This is not how both skills are supposed to work. Their type is damaging, they are positively affected by casting healing spells beforehand. As lifetaps their always were unaffected by healdebuffs of any sort. Here they got a heal component added but their general type and behavior did not change at all.
I take your word, that they are working like this but I can't recall any patch note stating such a "fix". Tbh, it makes little sense.

[ByzantineTime]

This is woefully ignorant. I have both classes, and it's easy as hell to play a magus and put dots on everything, just as it's easy to hit someone and heal everyone around you. Shield dok/wp is no less hard. Both classes have a ton of potential when you get someone that knows how to play behind them. Both have their weaknesses and counters. For shield dok/wp keep them snared/kited, use absorbs, detaunts and defensives to reduce healing. Heal Debuff is using mitigation skills or just knocking them out of range. Range, range is your friend. They can't heal for crap unless they are in range AND hitting the right target to get that damage. They have a ton of downsides already compared to other healers.

Them hitting a pet to heal is that players fault for not controlling it better btw, it's not that healing is "too good". I see so many people put pets on fire and forget lazy mode.

I'll give you some facts.
Ranked match 6v6
Ivyans either DOK or WP
ON dok he sometimes deals more damage than both of the dps classes, 200k 250k DPS, and in heals its 350k-400k
FACT is he dealt 200k-250k gives a lot of pressure on the target, and the target dies quicker helping the team thats the fact and only by hitting the target, he heals his defensive targets for more than pure healers that is also a fact.

You can reason it out by saying detaunt, they can't heal if you counter them, fact is that is what they produce.
So if a ranged guy runs away from them they will just either keep going on him or focus a different easier target, but numbers don't lie, they deal too much.
Tanks can't punt them they need to punt the enemy tanks, on paper you reason it out but in game it's a different story currently it's OP.

I am a rr84 shield dok and I can tell you its no where near being OP. If it was OP then I wouldn't die in 3 seconds to a single WH.

how do you die 3sec to wh when my mara in 50s vanq doesnt? even to a bis wh.

[Charon]

i think i know the issue that OP is trying to address and its strictly connected with 6v6 rankeds. Its hard to balance sdok/wp just by looking on their performance here. I would say that 1 sdok/swp in team is not the problem. Things start to be crazy when you have 2 of them especially sdok which provide more dmg pressure ...and cannot be so easily countered by for example by .ap drains. I will suggest to modify rankeds que system to not stack 2 sdok/wp together ..similarly like with melee + ranged composition.

[Bloodmasked]

here is my fully offensive shield dok versus a training construct. note: damage is obviously higher when paired with tanks/mdps who can buff/debuff, e.g. mara armor debuff. this is a fully glass cannon build with zero defences other than lifesteals. didn't have celerity because i relogged, its damage is very minor.

strength 1051 (self buffed). weapon skill 421. melee crit 39%.

https://streamable.com/esl8k7

result: Defeated training construct in 28.814 seconds. That is 582 damage per second. Highest 3s burst was 2468 damage.

[ByzantineTime]

here is my fully offensive shield dok versus a training construct. note: damage is obviously higher when paired with tanks/mdps who can buff/debuff, e.g. mara armor debuff. this is a fully glass cannon build with zero defences other than lifesteals. didn't have celerity because i relogged, its damage is very minor.

strength 1051 (self buffed). weapon skill 421. melee crit 39%.

https://streamable.com/esl8k7

result: Defeated training construct in 28.814 seconds. That is 582 damage per second. Highest 3s burst was 2468 damage.

This is pretty good since you heal defensive target for 250% per hit, and without debuffs like you mentioned... pretty insane lol

[Bloodmasked]

here is my fully offensive shield dok versus a training construct. note: damage is obviously higher when paired with tanks/mdps who can buff/debuff, e.g. mara armor debuff. this is a fully glass cannon build with zero defences other than lifesteals. didn't have celerity because i relogged, its damage is very minor.

strength 1051 (self buffed). weapon skill 421. melee crit 39%.

https://streamable.com/esl8k7

result: Defeated training construct in 28.814 seconds. That is 582 damage per second. Highest 3s burst was 2468 damage.

This is pretty good since you heal defensive target for 250% per hit, and without debuffs like you mentioned... pretty insane lol

Each transfer essence is doing 965 non-crit and 1362 crit in healing (group heal). Devour essence can double that output to one target I select (about 800 health per second for 5 seconds, 20s cooldown, versus 4 targets). Rend soul does anywhere from 6000 to 9296 healing in 3 seconds on construct (more with chosen debuff).

[ByzantineTime]

here is my fully offensive shield dok versus a training construct. note: damage is obviously higher when paired with tanks/mdps who can buff/debuff, e.g. mara armor debuff. this is a fully glass cannon build with zero defences other than lifesteals. didn't have celerity because i relogged, its damage is very minor.

strength 1051 (self buffed). weapon skill 421. melee crit 39%.

https://streamable.com/esl8k7

result: Defeated training construct in 28.814 seconds. That is 582 damage per second. Highest 3s burst was 2468 damage.

This is pretty good since you heal defensive target for 250% per hit, and without debuffs like you mentioned... pretty insane lol

Each transfer essence is doing 965 non-crit and 1362 crit in healing (group heal). Devour essence can double that output to one target I select (about 800 health per second for 5 seconds, 20s cooldown, versus 4 targets). Rend soul does anywhere from 6000 to 9296 healing in 3 seconds on construct (more with chosen debuff).

350% rend soul holy crap... :O those numbers are insane lol and you say its not op???

[Bloodmasked]

This is pretty good since you heal defensive target for 250% per hit, and without debuffs like you mentioned... pretty insane lol

Each transfer essence is doing 965 non-crit and 1362 crit in healing (group heal). Devour essence can double that output to one target I select (about 800 health per second for 5 seconds, 20s cooldown, versus 4 targets). Rend soul does anywhere from 6000 to 9296 healing in 3 seconds on construct (more with chosen debuff).

350% rend soul holy crap... :O those numbers are insane lol and you say its not op???

To shut down a shield WP/DOK requires coordination and good use of CC. This makes the class fun not OP. If you mindlessly bash against a shield WP/DOK (like you would to kill most other healers) then you will likely lose because they can out sustain you, if they have a guard then can probably out sustain you and a few of your friends. Examples have already been stated above such as a ranged dps who kills the shield WP/DOK simply by being outside of melee range, thus preventing them from doing any healing.