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Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

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Panodil
Posts: 319

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#71 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:19 am

Rewarding sticking to one side, maybe some daily/weekly rvr quests with decent reward that makes people want to fight in orvr. Maybe only one daily quest for each account so you have to pick one char to do it on, i dont know.

Rewarding is better than punishing people for sure. Have some kind of reqard for playing on order(or destro) for x ammount of days without logging over.

Also maybe some info about population before logging in at character screen. Rewarding the realm with lower population.
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Sulorie
Posts: 5247

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#72 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:27 am

Nekkma wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:49 am

This is how it used to be and back then we had real realmpride and realm co-operation. As someone pointed out a few pages back, this game is more guild based than realmbased. Why should I care aboutrealm when the only thing that matters in the end is if my guild/group wins? Personally, I think the guild based gameplay is fine. I just pointed out what realmpride really means in practice. Going on about realmpride and faction lock when realm performance means nothing at all in game is misdirected. Faction lock does not create any realmpride.
I fully agree but even if realm cooperation mattered, there is little reason to be proud of your realm on a daily basis, when you see how people play. It is much more reasonable to seek pride in your own group, guild or alliance.
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Sundowner
Posts: 384

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#73 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:31 am

Panodil wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:19 am
Rewarding sticking to one side, maybe some daily/weekly rvr quests with decent reward that makes people want to fight in orvr. Maybe only one daily quest for each account so you have to pick one char to do it on, i dont know.

Rewarding is better than punishing people for sure. Have some kind of reqard for playing on order(or destro) for x ammount of days without logging over.

Also maybe some info about population before logging in at character screen. Rewarding the realm with lower population.
Yeah, I think reworking RVR influence rewards/system will be very good start. Create new meaningful rewards, weekly quests or smth.

Flet
Posts: 16

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#74 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:14 am

Nekkma wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:49 am
I think the guild based gameplay is fine.
I have some thoughts on this in general mmo-theory.

Guild-centricity in mmos is what has caused the genres long decline over the last 20 years. People complain about mmo community dying. What is it that gives mmos a sense of community? Its your interaction with people in it. The more you interact the more social it becomes. The sense that you are existing within a world with all these other people - some you know well, others you dont know at all, just like reality. What guild-centricity has done is slowly shift things out of the game world. Guilds exist now in a separate reality, usually focused around some third party entity - discord now and guild websites back before - the games they play become a sort of minigame. The game stops being the community and instead the guild becomes the community and the game is something they just do as an activity together. Guild-centricity is actually antisocial because it moves the fundamental seed of social experience away from the game world and towards something not of the game.

In the earlier days guilds tended to be more rooted in mmos game world. They used mostly built in mechanisms for communication (announcements, elaborate guild interfaces, ive ever played mmos with in-game message boards) and were very centralized to the game. If you wanted to talk to someone you logged into the game and used the games functionality to do it - and importantly if you wanted to talk to someone else you were using the same chat interface/messaging system. The difference between talking to someone you knew well and someone you just ran into was opening chat with a different slash command. Thus the distinction between the two was less, both were simply people you were interacting with inside of the game world.

Societies are shaped by the conditions they exist in. If peoples day-to-day moment-to-moment activities involve sticking with a small group that exists primarily out of the game, then that games society is not going to have any spirit of unity based on in game identities. Forming guild-centric tendencies happened because it was the path of least resistance to the challenges the players faced. Over the years game developers, thinking they were enhancing their games social aspect by providing special guild activities and rewards for these newly emerging groups, were driving the trend even further by making it more and more necessary.

The solution to this, if anyone was willing to undertake fixing it, would involve designing game mechanics that counteracted this gradual shift. People were driven to this by conditions which were made easier by having access to these exclusive groups to start with. Game mechanics that encouraged playing with anyone you happened to be around would diminish the utility and thus reverse the focusing. In the end humans will tend towards trying to make their lives easier, and so you can guide their path by simply controlling what tasks are hard for them to do and count on general laziness to settle them into the most efficient way to do it.

It would need to be undone-gradually just as it was done gradually, because people resist change generally, and always imagine future developments in the context of modern day utility and not the realities of that future. Thus if you were to say 'remove this thing', people who currently use this thing will only interpret it as the current situation minus that thing, which is of course incomplete and broken because that thing is a part of current situation and cant just be ripped out.

Of course you can never reverse time. Cycles are spirals and not circles. We are stuck with this kind of clique thinking now and the true solution will have to somehow incorporate it. Awareness of how we ended up here however is the first step in realizing an experience that shares some of the same characteristics. A solution however is required if mmos are to survive long term, since other forms of game fit the 'guild-as-a-society who just does minigames togeather' model better than mmos do, and while nothing really replicates the RvR experience like a proper RvR mmo, the incompatibility of the underlying game model with the standard player social configuration of the modern era will see that same human desire to find the path of least resistance settle on slightly less fulfilling games if they are all the more easy to play.

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Grock
Posts: 756

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#75 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:02 am

I am so unbelievably tired of "xrealm lockout" argument its not even possible to describe

Limiting faction swapping only leads to pop balance stagnation
"Loyalty rewards" would lead to snowball effect of people switching to "stronger" faction and sticking with it for longer.

Want a solution?

Remove all lockouts, limit the leeching rewards, encourage positive xrealming via rally promts, progression buffs and account-bound rewards.

Problem solved.
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Drekan
Posts: 58

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#76 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:26 am

Why do you want pop equity while nobody wants to do pvp anyways, since people almost camp into wc or keep for hours.days
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Flet
Posts: 16

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#77 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:38 am

Grock wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:02 am
encourage positive xrealming via rally promts, progression buffs and account-bound rewards.
Inverts the problem to one of people chasing a different reward. Instead of switching to the winning side to optimize their play time they switch to the losing one. While such a thing would theoretically result in good on paper results it would do nothing to result in a simple honest realm vs realm experience, as it would now punish people for playing a single faction.

You could potentially combine the two to create a system where people are encouraged to play a single faction with faction loyalty rewards, and also have a system like you describe, so that those who do crossrealm play can get the same kinds of rewards as faction loyalists by always picking the weaker side to play on, but dont get anything otherwise. Then people who want to play both sides could be funneled into a balancing mechanism to improve the experience of people who want to stick to a single side, and only those who want to play both sides specifically to always be on the winning side end up left out.

anarchypark
Posts: 1807

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#78 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:03 pm

Nekkma wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:49 am
Sundowner wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:40 am
Nekkma wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:33 am
If you want realmpride you need to make realms matter and that means reverting all the loser rewards introduced, e.g. only sov for the attacking realm. I doubt the "xrealming is bad" crowd is really up for that.
very nice way to kill a game :D
This is how it used to be and back then we had real realmpride and realm co-operation. As someone pointed out a few pages back, this game is more guild based than realmbased. Why should I care aboutrealm when the only thing that matters in the end is if my guild/group wins? Personally, I think the guild based gameplay is fine. I just pointed out what realmpride really means in practice. Going on about realmpride and faction lock when realm performance means nothing at all in game is misdirected. Faction lock does not create any realmpride.

you wanna see 0 instance city ?
ppl don't queue if nothing to gain or xrealm to winning side.
what happen to live servers ?
mostly became 1 sided so they had to merge to save dead servers.
you need enemy.

congrats you eliminated them, what's next? divide that guild into 2 and fight each other? whos turn to play enemy role?

after 10 years ppl still don't see flaw of winner gets all design.
is there any pvp game out there following that rule?
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Nekkma
Posts: 629

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#79 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:24 pm

anarchypark wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:03 pm
Nekkma wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:49 am
Sundowner wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 7:40 am


very nice way to kill a game :D
This is how it used to be and back then we had real realmpride and realm co-operation. As someone pointed out a few pages back, this game is more guild based than realmbased. Why should I care aboutrealm when the only thing that matters in the end is if my guild/group wins? Personally, I think the guild based gameplay is fine. I just pointed out what realmpride really means in practice. Going on about realmpride and faction lock when realm performance means nothing at all in game is misdirected. Faction lock does not create any realmpride.

you wanna see 0 instance city ?
ppl don't queue if nothing to gain or xrealm to winning side.
what happen to live servers ?
mostly became 1 sided so they had to merge to save dead servers.
you need enemy.

congrats you eliminated them, what's next? divide that guild into 2 and fight each other? whos turn to play enemy role?

after 10 years ppl still don't see flaw of winner gets all design.
is there any pvp game out there following that rule?
Yes, in a system without realmpride none bothers if there are no rewards. That's the very point of what I am writing. You write about realmpride and don't even know what it means. Thanks for proving my point.
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xanderous
Posts: 494

Re: Poll for 24h lockout to combat xrealming

Post#80 » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:43 pm

Lockouts don't stop xrealming it just makes people commit more to one side, you'd think people would have figured this out by now.
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