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Order is the new chaos?

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adapter
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Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#31 » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:59 pm

Playing this game in a competitive or serious manner will drain the fun out of it. Casual rvr roam, roleplaying and scenarios is the best, zogg the meta and zogg 2/2/2 warbands.
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wonshot
Posts: 749

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#32 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:04 am

Charon wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:02 pm
...In this case i completely disagree with you. If not devs no one have tools to solve problem that has been growing from years..DID YOU EVEN ASK yourself why order looks like that?? And ppl who are more keen to play together stay/flock to destro....
Disagreements are good.

The thing I have come to understand over the years, is that no matter what incentive the devs put on something the playerbase will just abuse.
We saw it with the 20rp tics on Battleobjectives years ago, we saw it when Devs added royal and invader shards and with royals for defending forts to prevent throwing.

All of these examples have the same in common. A placebased issue that is attempted to be solved with rewards and incentives in terms of rewards. What I am dearly missing on Order, is the will to put in effort and kick destro ass... Not playing for rewards, goldbags, crests but instead playing whatever it takes to win..

SW was added to some extend of viable warband specs with an aoe build. Given some morale drain, that used to be a destro-only tool against what the enemy realm had as an advantage.
Rolgrom has shown running offmeta comps can work to some succes, Cature has been at it for about a year now consistantly taking inexperienced people in and given them the taste of what playing in a raid means, and more guilds have come to order since then with RC FoW etc.

But on the days where there are no guilds vanguarding, then the true identity of Order shows. Everyone plays for themselves and the core gameplay(RvR) of having two realms fighting for every inch of territory is out the window if one of the sides dont put up a fight unless it is involving keepwalls.

You see, i no longer believe in the whole "one ability" focus.. For largescale both realms have their strenght and weaknesses. Just imagine how brutal a WL aoe knockdown would be on top of BW+Rampage+SW now that the destro advantage of morales are out the window. Just as an example of how things and advantages cant be mirrored. A prime example of Order's ranged knockdown advantage being mirrored to RSH and see the results.. :roll:

IB have gotten their AP battery+singletargetbuffing+aoe snare role for warbandplay, on top of guardbotting and mitigation role.
WH has a 40feet wide aoe armor debuff on top of dragongun build.
SW has aoe stacking dots, m2 snare morale, barrage morale drain.

These are 3 offmeta classes that was not as viable for warbandplay half a year back or so. Yet Order pugwarband warfare is shrinking despite Developer interferance. I just dont buy into this is not a playerbase issue any more sorry :)

Edit: oh and to reply to the "why do players flock to destro" well it could have something to do with they have a better pug-culture. Just now I had an hour to play, i could had logged on either realm but since destro had not just one, but two pug discord warbands running who were out looking for roaming fights and not keep-sieges as i could expect had i went on Order.
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Sulorie
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Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#33 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:16 am

So true, order rdps don't know what to do the moment they don't sit in a fort lord room or on a keep/fort wall.
I fully believe it is solo pug mentality, because what class type to pick if playing solo in order to progress in the game?
Playing a support class and looking for groups takes too much time - in their view. That order /5 is dead is another story.
Playing melee dd, too risky without heal and guard.
There are only rdps available to do the job with those preconditions..
The price are terribad setups for city siege with only a few premade warbands with actually some sense of class setup.
Then you get into an instance with 23 dps classes on your side and visit the forums to vent.
Dying is no option.

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Gurf
Posts: 520

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#34 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:46 am

Balance isn't too bad but too much 1 way mirroring to destro and removing of uniqueness of Order classes has resulted in Destro being more attractive to play.

Also talking about pug leading it's always easy to lead pugs on the side of population, you have other groups backing you up, organised groups flanking, hardly ever outnumbered so you win more than often. Order has leaders like Beastz who get constantly zerged and crushed by numbers, then half the warband logs out as it's pretty pointless.

emiliorv
Posts: 1036

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#35 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:54 am

Pug leaders avoid order because how the hell its supossed they can build a wb with only rdps?
teiloh wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Rampage is overrated, RUN AWAY! was hands down the best tactic in the game.

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MMXX43
Posts: 163

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#36 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:56 am

zumos2 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:05 pm
MMXX43 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:27 pm
Destrokarens retains the best warband mdps (MSH)
LOL
MMXX43 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:27 pm
best warband healer (DOK with 2 cds red constant group or aoe heals )
LOOOL
MMXX43 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 9:27 pm
and best warband rdps (SH as of late ).
Literally 0 AoE, but sure best warband rdps xD
glad about your lols.

next.
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yiddos1111
Posts: 7

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#37 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:31 am

just change the name from warhammer return to reckoning to warhammer we love destruction and every ones happy

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teiloh
Posts: 625

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#38 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:04 am

lyncher12 wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 7:13 pm
Order doesn't have to exclude anything but that doesn't mean you want to stack classes that don't bring anything to the table. Neither side stacks either Engineer or Magus. 1 is super good to have and anything more doesn't bring anything to the table. Napalm and Phosphorus don't stack. Shaman is in the same boat as AM. A good one in the right party can be good but I would never invite a Shaman I didn't know if I was serious about winning. mSH needs choppa/bo or double bo optimally and both classes are usually in short supply. Even with perma cooldown reduction I haven't seen a champion mSH in probably 10 months. rSW morale drain with WW party is still OP. IB is slightly better than BG but guess what, nobody is begging for either and you take what you get. WH and WE are top tier for a single target group, WH more so because Excommunicate cheese in stage 3.

It also turns out city happens randomly and usually at 4am so most warbands are inviting people they are unsure about on classes that are suboptimal but City is for gear, not fun or competitive PvP.
Magus stack just fine, Engineer is maybe another question. Napalm/Mist don't stack but if you stagger them the higher tick one will override the lower tick one if I'm not mistaken. And of course you can always cover more ground with two.

BO/Choppa are some of the most played classes (as any Order player can tell you by class/greenskin kill logs), imagine how rare SMs are by comparison.

Barrage with WW will get you -600 morale every 30s if you time it perfectly with VON. It's good, but you'd have to have more than optimal conditions (CD reducer widely available, all of Destro stacked into one 40 foot cone) to even somewhat offset 30-60 per second Destro morale boosters. Keep in mind that while you're saying -600 morale every 30s with a two-class combinations timing their buffs perfectly is OP, every single AOE Marauder was capable of doing -2250 every 30s with just a tactic, and I'm guessing you thought Destro was perfectly fine/balanced even then. And it didn't even have an ICD until a little while ago.

In a WB it's doubtful that an IB is better than BG. BG is basically a 2H KOBS on steroids.

And a WH is not going to be building up to Excommunicate fast at all. If you want real anti-champ cheese try Tzeentch's Talon and Deeply Impaled, and these will have 100% uptime vs the years it takes to get Excom without Dragon Gun.
Last edited by teiloh on Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Detangler
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Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#39 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:11 am

In this game in competive warband and 12v12 scenarios, aoe melee is king in close quarters. Destro has 3 options, Order has 2.

Give order a decent 3rd aoe melee option and all will be well.

Give me a similar rank/gear SM as my Chosen and I'll happily go play on the fancy elf side, but I don't have the time to regear another toon.

Also, can confirm - /5 is alive and kicking on Destro all the time. Dont know why Order players don't use it. Matchmaker is notoriously untrustworthy, so why do you keep relying on it?
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pagimanRalla10
Posts: 1

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#40 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:03 am

Bombling from your super smart talk things don't get any better. You and Olethros pissed off on the Destro site. You could have helped to move something here on the order side. But what did you big talkers do instead? Now play the OP classes on Destro yourself.

I can happily do without such smart ****. I would have liked to have seen Destros if some of your good skills like the AOE KD had been mirrored from the Marauder to the lion or if all of a sudden the Shadow Warrior had a mega AOE damage in the Melee Tree and also had an insane survivability.

Of course, order players play many range classes, but there is a reason for this: Because order MDPS classes are simply worse to play than Destro Melee classes. What else do you have left then. Play a range class to have some fun.

I no longer play the WH because it is just one class worse to play the witch.

I don't play the lion anymore because the pet has become completely pointless. It cannot be that a class that depends on the synergy of its pets is being denounced like this.

The pet dies faster than it can be called again. In addition, very important skills can only be performed via the pet.

It can't be that so many changes have been made without thinking about what impact it will have on the gameplay.

I play the archmage on DMG because there is no point in playing this class properly as a healer. **** healing mechanics and dead quickly at Focus.
The shaman, on the other hand, has super defensive tactics and a hot that also buffs resistance.

There are still some things that are known.

The only classes that keep the game alive are the Slayer and AOE Fire Wizard.

So let your so senseless upper sly prophecies.

I don't like it when people write about order classes here but play Destro Meta classes themselves ..

Just ridiculous what you are giving of yourself.

Greetings Blazess

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