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Order is the new chaos?

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heybaws
Posts: 90

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#131 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:03 pm

nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:48 pm

As a casual tank player you can get tonnes of renown and contribution simply by challenging blobs of des (you get renown&contri for every kill), holding the line for people behind you (contribution&renown as well) and if you're really edgy you can buff ppl around you while trying to dps (contri&renown here as well). And if you swap guard than rivers of renown will flow.

Trying to dps since you will never be as effective dps as dps class. Support style really rewards players in this game.
Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?
Majority of premade guilds are filled with ppl who "having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game". this is why they playing 2-3 times a week and have schedules when everyone can log on (mostly during the evenings) and play togetherr for 2-3 hours. And you will be surprised, but those people are playing tanks and healers too.

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NSKaneda
Posts: 701

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#132 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:26 pm

nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:48 pm

As a casual tank player you can get tonnes of renown and contribution simply by challenging blobs of des (you get renown&contri for every kill), holding the line for people behind you (contribution&renown as well) and if you're really edgy you can buff ppl around you while trying to dps (contri&renown here as well). And if you swap guard than rivers of renown will flow.

Trying to dps since you will never be as effective dps as dps class. Support style really rewards players in this game.
Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?

Welcome to altoholics anonymous, we meet every evening in the lakes. I have 19 toons. Sometimes I feel like healing and log shammie or AM. Sometimes I want to chill&heal so I log RP or zeal. Other times I feel bloodthirsty so I log magus, choppa or slayer. I have 4 tanks for those times I'm pissed and stubborn. SH/SW when I feel nasty (or want some sniper fun time).
Imagine playing a tank for 4 hours in the evening and getting gold-purple-blue for doing tank things. Every night. Just for doing what the class was designed to do. Going with the flow instead of fighting the class & game design and suffering for it.

But of course players can do what they want. Play dps tanks. Dps healers. Melee on ranged. No-one stopping them, right? Except for the fact that Warhammer Online is one of the last games to fully utilise "holy trinity". Tank. Dps. Healer.
Not like "more modern" games where you have group healing dps and range tanks (for crying out loud). Games where every class heals, buffs and tanks because, let me put it mildly, players can't be bothered to read class description and cry on forums for months that their tank was killed by a dps.

"So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players." - have you considered the possibility that game mechanics are fine but casual players make it hard for themselves by trying to do things the classes were not designed to do?

There are classes that do stupid amounts of burst, killing enemies in seconds. But no, there are players that want unkillable tank to do the same dps. They want squishy back line healers to survive full on melee blob and kill half of it in the process. DPS to have as much survivability as tanks and sustain as healers. All of this while running solo. And running solo is for those that know how to fend for themselves - it's always been this way in WAR. You go solo to test yourself, taking more risks for fun and to learn.


"Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something?"
I would imagine such person would roll dps class to actually kill something and do few scenarios since they're time-limited and being casual they have no time to look for a group (Mork forbids a guild).
The mentality you've mentioned is directly responsible for the state order is in nowadays. And it has been responsible for the state destro were in a year ago. Let me paraphrase: don't hate the game, hate the... You know the rest.
Last edited by NSKaneda on Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM, Mordoszczel BO | Ginnar IB, Zuriael AM ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

emiliorv
Posts: 1031

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#133 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:25 pm

nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm
Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?
i must be a rare case then....due to short gametime i chose to play a support class, one of that "wanted classes" and i dont have any issue finding grps/wbs or whatever, and yes im having fun doing it.

You sure its more fun playing a overplayed class ?? sure, too much fun being one of the 65184954 engineers trying to get the 1 spot in wb for city...
teiloh wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Rampage is overrated, RUN AWAY! was hands down the best tactic in the game.

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wonshot
Posts: 749

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#134 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:52 pm

nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm

Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?
This might actually be one of the bigger missconceptions there is out there about guilds. Being in an organized guild, or just an event-guild doesnt mean you are taking on a 2nd job. (for officers it can be, but their own choice to do so)
Ive always said that players should find guilds that fit their needs, if they just want to see a big active roster with people leveling, go get a leveling-guild. if they want casual none discord guild groups, get into those kind of guilds, if they want roleplay hit up Bitterstone or join the waaagh etc.
And for those who find themselves able to put in two hours, two times a week there are the discord warband guilds. Nothing more required than you log your class for event nights and play the game with like minded folks.

Logging in and playing when you want is still very much still available, but you have the bonus of having "event nights" where you know the guild will be on. Since this is an mmo you get the multiplayer aspect of having someone to play with, talk to while playing and if the guild's structure is solid enough you might even have those support-people who like to tank and heal.

Being in a guild on RoR should basicly just mean that someone is doing the boring organization work in the background for you, all you have to do is log on and play your role. Then let the officers and leadership handle all the recruitments, logistics, heck some guilds even give out consumeables and talis.

You would be supriced how many other family fathers are out there in organized guilds, newbaked mothers, singleladies and firsttimers. all just wanting to play the game, but in a slightly more organized and timeefficient way.

Imagine logging in on a gamenight with your guild, having fun and just getting straight to playing & chatting, instead of running around looking for a pug warband or trying to find action.
or are we assuming Destro dont have these family fathers, and they are all teenagers :roll: (because they are exactly the same as Order)
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nailinthehead
Posts: 59

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#135 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 7:54 pm

Well, my post was related to ppl complaining that dps classes are more often chosen than guardbots or healers.

Personally I don't get the "overrepresented class" argument. I dont really care how many people roll given class, only what matters is if that class is fun to play for me. Hell, in BTs most people roll engies and somehow noone complains 😁
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Sponn
Posts: 170

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#136 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:10 pm

NSKaneda wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:26 pm
nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:48 pm

As a casual tank player you can get tonnes of renown and contribution simply by challenging blobs of des (you get renown&contri for every kill), holding the line for people behind you (contribution&renown as well) and if you're really edgy you can buff ppl around you while trying to dps (contri&renown here as well). And if you swap guard than rivers of renown will flow.

Trying to dps since you will never be as effective dps as dps class. Support style really rewards players in this game.
Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?

Welcome to altoholics anonymous, we meet every evening in the lakes. I have 19 toons. Sometimes I feel like healing and log shammie or AM. Sometimes I want to chill&heal so I log RP or zeal. Other times I feel bloodthirsty so I log magus, choppa or slayer. I have 4 tanks for those times I'm pissed and stubborn. SH/SW when I feel nasty (or want some sniper fun time).
Imagine playing a tank for 4 hours in the evening and getting gold-purple-blue for doing tank things. Every night. Just for doing what the class was designed to do. Going with the flow instead of fighting the class & game design and suffering for it.

But of course players can do what they want. Play dps tanks. Dps healers. Melee on ranged. No-one stopping them, right? Except for the fact that Warhammer Online is one of the last games to fully utilise "holy trinity". Tank. Dps. Healer.
Not like "more modern" games where you have group healing dps and range tanks (for crying out loud). Games where every class heals, buffs and tanks because, let me put it mildly, players can't be bothered to read class description and cry on forums for months that their tank was killed by a dps.

"So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players." - have you considered the possibility that game mechanics are fine but casual players make it hard for themselves by trying to do things the classes were not designed to do?

There are classes that do stupid amounts of burst, killing enemies in seconds. But no, there are players that want unkillable tank to do the same dps. They want squishy back line healers to survive full on melee blob and kill half of it in the process. DPS to have as much survivability as tanks and sustain as healers. All of this while running solo. And running solo is for those that know how to fend for themselves - it's always been this way in WAR. You go solo to test yourself, taking more risks for fun and to learn.


"Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something?"
I would imagine such person would roll dps class to actually kill something and do few scenarios since they're time-limited and being casual they have no time to look for a group (Mork forbids a guild).
The mentality you've mentioned is directly responsible for the state order is in nowadays. And it has been responsible for the state destro were in a year ago. Let me paraphrase: don't hate the game, hate the... You know the rest.


The saying is "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

you dinkus lol

it isn't "dont hate the game, hate the ....." there is no saying that even starts that way. You have things the opposite way around lmao.

Sponn
Posts: 170

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#137 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:11 pm

wonshot wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:52 pm
nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm

Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?
This might actually be one of the bigger missconceptions there is out there about guilds. Being in an organized guild, or just an event-guild doesnt mean you are taking on a 2nd job. (for officers it can be, but their own choice to do so)
Ive always said that players should find guilds that fit their needs, if they just want to see a big active roster with people leveling, go get a leveling-guild. if they want casual none discord guild groups, get into those kind of guilds, if they want roleplay hit up Bitterstone or join the waaagh etc.
And for those who find themselves able to put in two hours, two times a week there are the discord warband guilds. Nothing more required than you log your class for event nights and play the game with like minded folks.

Logging in and playing when you want is still very much still available, but you have the bonus of having "event nights" where you know the guild will be on. Since this is an mmo you get the multiplayer aspect of having someone to play with, talk to while playing and if the guild's structure is solid enough you might even have those support-people who like to tank and heal.

Being in a guild on RoR should basicly just mean that someone is doing the boring organization work in the background for you, all you have to do is log on and play your role. Then let the officers and leadership handle all the recruitments, logistics, heck some guilds even give out consumeables and talis.

You would be supriced how many other family fathers are out there in organized guilds, newbaked mothers, singleladies and firsttimers. all just wanting to play the game, but in a slightly more organized and timeefficient way.

Imagine logging in on a gamenight with your guild, having fun and just getting straight to playing & chatting, instead of running around looking for a pug warband or trying to find action.
or are we assuming Destro dont have these family fathers, and they are all teenagers :roll: (because they are exactly the same as Order)
I dunno there is a whole guild of unemployed russians on Destro and not Order so

/s

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NSKaneda
Posts: 701

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#138 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:24 pm

Sponn wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:10 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:26 pm
Spoiler:
nailinthehead wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:55 pm


Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something? Do you think, that average player treats this game so damn serious as some of the posters here? I don't think so. People want to have fun and do what they have the mood to do and I think it's quite natural approach. So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players. Of course devs can make this game require high skills, following strict roles in a group etc but would it be attractive for a casual player?

Welcome to altoholics anonymous, we meet every evening in the lakes. I have 19 toons. Sometimes I feel like healing and log shammie or AM. Sometimes I want to chill&heal so I log RP or zeal. Other times I feel bloodthirsty so I log magus, choppa or slayer. I have 4 tanks for those times I'm pissed and stubborn. SH/SW when I feel nasty (or want some sniper fun time).
Imagine playing a tank for 4 hours in the evening and getting gold-purple-blue for doing tank things. Every night. Just for doing what the class was designed to do. Going with the flow instead of fighting the class & game design and suffering for it.

But of course players can do what they want. Play dps tanks. Dps healers. Melee on ranged. No-one stopping them, right? Except for the fact that Warhammer Online is one of the last games to fully utilise "holy trinity". Tank. Dps. Healer.
Not like "more modern" games where you have group healing dps and range tanks (for crying out loud). Games where every class heals, buffs and tanks because, let me put it mildly, players can't be bothered to read class description and cry on forums for months that their tank was killed by a dps.

"So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players." - have you considered the possibility that game mechanics are fine but casual players make it hard for themselves by trying to do things the classes were not designed to do?

There are classes that do stupid amounts of burst, killing enemies in seconds. But no, there are players that want unkillable tank to do the same dps. They want squishy back line healers to survive full on melee blob and kill half of it in the process. DPS to have as much survivability as tanks and sustain as healers. All of this while running solo. And running solo is for those that know how to fend for themselves - it's always been this way in WAR. You go solo to test yourself, taking more risks for fun and to learn.


"Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something?"
I would imagine such person would roll dps class to actually kill something and do few scenarios since they're time-limited and being casual they have no time to look for a group (Mork forbids a guild).
The mentality you've mentioned is directly responsible for the state order is in nowadays. And it has been responsible for the state destro were in a year ago. Let me paraphrase: don't hate the game, hate the... You know the rest.


The saying is "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

you dinkus lol

it isn't "dont hate the game, hate the ....." there is no saying that even starts that way. You have things the opposite way around lmao.

paraphrase /ˈparəfreɪz/: noun: paraphrase; plural noun: paraphrases
a rewording of something written or spoken.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM, Mordoszczel BO | Ginnar IB, Zuriael AM ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

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Sponn
Posts: 170

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#139 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:27 pm

NSKaneda wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:24 pm
Sponn wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:10 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:26 pm
Spoiler:


Welcome to altoholics anonymous, we meet every evening in the lakes. I have 19 toons. Sometimes I feel like healing and log shammie or AM. Sometimes I want to chill&heal so I log RP or zeal. Other times I feel bloodthirsty so I log magus, choppa or slayer. I have 4 tanks for those times I'm pissed and stubborn. SH/SW when I feel nasty (or want some sniper fun time).
Imagine playing a tank for 4 hours in the evening and getting gold-purple-blue for doing tank things. Every night. Just for doing what the class was designed to do. Going with the flow instead of fighting the class & game design and suffering for it.

But of course players can do what they want. Play dps tanks. Dps healers. Melee on ranged. No-one stopping them, right? Except for the fact that Warhammer Online is one of the last games to fully utilise "holy trinity". Tank. Dps. Healer.
Not like "more modern" games where you have group healing dps and range tanks (for crying out loud). Games where every class heals, buffs and tanks because, let me put it mildly, players can't be bothered to read class description and cry on forums for months that their tank was killed by a dps.

"So if the gaming quality is bad because of casual players playing for fun, then there's a problem with game's mechanics not with players." - have you considered the possibility that game mechanics are fine but casual players make it hard for themselves by trying to do things the classes were not designed to do?

There are classes that do stupid amounts of burst, killing enemies in seconds. But no, there are players that want unkillable tank to do the same dps. They want squishy back line healers to survive full on melee blob and kill half of it in the process. DPS to have as much survivability as tanks and sustain as healers. All of this while running solo. And running solo is for those that know how to fend for themselves - it's always been this way in WAR. You go solo to test yourself, taking more risks for fun and to learn.


"Imagine a man/woman, having a regular job, kids, home duties and very little amount of free time to play the game. Do you think that person will spend this short time he/she has on being an utility bot or rather on trying to fight and actually kill something?"
I would imagine such person would roll dps class to actually kill something and do few scenarios since they're time-limited and being casual they have no time to look for a group (Mork forbids a guild).
The mentality you've mentioned is directly responsible for the state order is in nowadays. And it has been responsible for the state destro were in a year ago. Let me paraphrase: don't hate the game, hate the... You know the rest.


The saying is "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

you dinkus lol

it isn't "dont hate the game, hate the ....." there is no saying that even starts that way. You have things the opposite way around lmao.

paraphrase /ˈparəfreɪz/: noun: paraphrase; plural noun: paraphrases
a rewording of something written or spoken.


par·a·phrase
/ˈperəˌfrāz/
Learn to pronounce
verb

express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words, especially to achieve greater clarity.

LOL btw you used paraphrase as a verb, not a noun. Paraphase doesn't mean to totally mess up the message. LMAO

good job dumb dumb LMAOOOO


Here lemme try, the saying is.... 2 bushes are better than 1 hand right? I'm just paraphrasing "one in the hand is better than 2 in the bush"

User avatar
NSKaneda
Posts: 701

Re: Order is the new chaos?

Post#140 » Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:31 pm

Sponn wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:27 pm
NSKaneda wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:24 pm
Sponn wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:10 pm




The saying is "Don't hate the player, hate the game"

you dinkus lol

it isn't "dont hate the game, hate the ....." there is no saying that even starts that way. You have things the opposite way around lmao.

paraphrase /ˈparəfreɪz/: noun: paraphrase; plural noun: paraphrases
a rewording of something written or spoken.

Paraphase doesn't mean to totally mess up the message. LMAO


Here lemme try, the saying is.... 2 bushes are better than 1 hand right? I'm just paraphrasing "one in the hand is better than 2 in the bush"

To make it painfully obvious: the normal expression is "don't hate the player, hate the game" when one is forced by the system to act in a certain way. However when it's the player that goes against a beneficial system then situation is reversed - hence my little signalled jest. But you know, one sentence out of the whole wall of text... Good to know you agree with the rest of it.

We can talk about semantics and Umberto Eco's multilayered meaning changing with either intended or unintended recipient as well as interpretational nature of the message... But it's not a forum for that ;)
Last edited by NSKaneda on Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RoR: Burszui SH, Ropopuch SHM, Mordoszczel BO | Ginnar IB, Zuriael AM ++ REV guild ++
Live: Karak Izor -> Karak Norn - Yarpaen IB, Ginnarr SL, Volundr ENG +Ithilmar's Chosen+
* * * playing 19 classes - running out of char slots * * *

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