Order is the new chaos?

[VindicoAtrum]

And that's IMHOthe biggest difference between Order and Destro toons - the feel and the looks. Take for example the SH which is so popular now. Why it is so? Because it has various builds and all of them work. Make Order better looking and more interesting to play and the class distribution will even out.

Hahaha jokes on you, nerfed assault SW anyway despite the fact there was about 10 of them on the server and no-one thought they were OP at all.

[Wam]

All those balance experts that considers msh best mdd, slayer being weaker than any destro mdd, kotbs being meme tank etc. Should just reroll on destro honestly. Competent order players will have more pugs to farm and there will be less victim mentality on order side aswell, which will improve realm in the long run.

but MSH is so OP Man, just because other order players told me its OP

it does like half the damage of a BW when the MSH is buffed by other classes... so OP even without heal debuff

and of course slayer is so weak according to some posters, thats why the winners of 6 man tournie used 2!

L look forward to being enlightened by biased posters

[teiloh]

finally the sh has a vialble range specc and all start crying

Ranged SH has been viable since release in all of its various forms. It's Destro crying that got the class overbuffed, so you have that part a little bit backward.

It didn't have any really good AOE options since Shoot Thru Ya was changed but it still doesn't have good AOE options.

[teiloh]

it does like half the damage of a BW when the MSH is buffed by other classes... so OP even without heal debuff

Curious as to what rotations both are using. Half damage sounds like a bit of a stretch.

I also doubt an AOE BW is specced for heal debuff.

[mogulprince]

After having played both sides recently, I've made similar observations. Pugs on destro side are generally better organized, even though the grass seems always greener on the other side. If you ignore the population difference, which might be interpreted by some as a balance issue, I personally don't see a balance problem in terms of RvR. At this point it is mainly a structural one where order has less well organized guilds that can push the campaign and not enough capable pug leaders. I won't talk about city, as I experienced they can go either way and are balanced in a premade environment. Solo ranked has a clear population problem and is niche content right now, so I feel this shouldn't even be considered in a balance discussion. You could argue that it's easier for destro to have a working dps composition than order.

[Nosun]

Population balance is the main issue. I don't see how any of you can't know this or you want to lie to yourself about it. As long as its a 60/40 split except order to play rdps and sit on the walls and snipe. Trying playing a tank or mdps when aao is anywhere from 100 to 400 and tell me how good you do. Its also comical that you destro players think you are so good but you are also scared to siege if aao for order is below 100.

[teiloh]

If Destro pugs are better organized or whatever I haven't really seen much of this. Destro pugs if anything fold very quickly after a few wipes.

[Wam]

it does like half the damage of a BW when the MSH is buffed by other classes... so OP even without heal debuff

Curious as to what rotations both are using. Half damage sounds like a bit of a stretch.

I also doubt an AOE BW is specced for heal debuff.

was more a comparison to other dps classes which have a heal debuff and thus are more of a threat... you know from playing healer how hard it is keep something alive that is debuffed, compared to just bursting with damage alone and it isnt even raw damage like a bw/sl or choppa...

I joke that even BW has a heal debuff which it does, and msh does not yet somehow order affraid of it when there are way bigger fish... if i was against my own allies i would all prefer tion/leaky/erre/matt/bash all as MSH over RSH... so that is why i do not see MSH as a big deal as some people make it out to be.

I think its more to do with destro have been dealing with gap closers (white lion) for years... sm WOH, ASW teleport etc and order not as use to dealing with counter gap closers, that is the only reason i can think why order have this phobia of msh

[dirnsterer]

I appreciate the effort for trying to improve things though, we swap back and forth to try mix things up and find good action, if there was more guilds or warbands like cntk and vii in orvr that would be great... if there was 5 guilds either side like this active in large scale it would remind me of KN and id be more happy and less concerned about the state of orvr from large scale point of view.

This is never going to happen anymore. Requires effort to make a good core group and build around it a warband. Plus lot of lacking leadership too. Why would anyone start this type of projects when if they are any good, can just join already established decent wb guild? This will most likely spiral into people making smaller guilds and what will happen is what happened on live, there will be couple warband guilds that casually run wb's, then theres the zerg and then most people are small scale roamers that just run groups all over the lakes.

[Wam]

I appreciate the effort for trying to improve things though, we swap back and forth to try mix things up and find good action, if there was more guilds or warbands like cntk and vii in orvr that would be great... if there was 5 guilds either side like this active in large scale it would remind me of KN and id be more happy and less concerned about the state of orvr from large scale point of view.

This is never going to happen anymore. Requires effort to make a good core group and build around it a warband. Plus lot of lacking leadership too. Why would anyone start this type of projects when if they are any good, can just join already established decent wb guild? This will most likely spiral into people making smaller guilds and what will happen is what happened on live, there will be couple warband guilds that casually run wb's, then theres the zerg and then most people are small scale roamers that just run groups all over the lakes.

never said its easy, i know the logistical issues very well and the fact people can get rewarded more for doing less if you play the game and play the system... its alot less headache. It's not too far fetched though, just requires a different mindset for fighting which is sadly lacking. You can see when people care more about siege/funnel/ram instead of fights and kills in pvp. People don't want to test themselves, looking for path of least resistance and gravy train to ride.