[Opinion] Cities Are 'Meh' For A Few Reasons.

[adapter]

It's not the dev's fault, though. They can't code the game to change player behavior.

It is. They choose the way a City Siege is played, they can change every aspect of it. There are so many options to make Cities fun to play and somehow they chose the most broken and dull one.

I think it's mostly due to the fact of not acknowledging they chose the wrong path.

Player behavior can be manipulated by tweaking / changing Battle Objectives, the way a Zone or Scenario is won, how to score, etc. All of that can change player behavior. Btw, im not trying to sound like a smartass, just wanted to point out that player behavior can be changed and cities could be more fun to play if Devs wanted it to be.

[Wam]

It's not the dev's fault, though. They can't code the game to change player behavior.

It is. They choose the way a City Siege is played, they can change every aspect of it. There are so many options to make Cities fun to play and somehow they chose the most broken and dull one.

I think it's mostly due to the fact of not acknowledging they chose the wrong path.

how do you think they can make it more fun?

I don't know their direction or vision for cities, but account based rewards should help class distrubtion atleast and less dps overstacking... as something worth considering

the other thing worth considering is Pve version of city... because of small population, it is not fun to wait 30 mins to que pop and then not get in (destro problem) if everyone gets in they have a chance, it would also mean solo querers would have to organise themselves and "git gud" with no excuses what so ever... which would replace the salt already thrown around at premades because somebody died in pvp.

Another thing would be the transparecy of the que... if people qued up and got a number in the que and know the chances of pop that would help... but i know some people with streamers and que manipulation might be a issue, but to be honest it is already a issue, in the past order guilds would search for destro guilds and their leaders in particular (i know i was searched) to see if they are in or not... they would wait for them to get a pop before queing... now the order guilds wait 25 mins to que to try get a pop vs destro pugs instead of premades... so order pugs get destro premades instead... that is a community issue, im not sure dev's stance on it but history shows it clearly night and day the difference between most premades either side.

They did reduce some of the cheese in cities over time, but i doubt anyone gives them props for that you can still do cheesey pve things too but its not as blatant atleast...

[adapter]

It's not the dev's fault, though. They can't code the game to change player behavior.

It is. They choose the way a City Siege is played, they can change every aspect of it. There are so many options to make Cities fun to play and somehow they chose the most broken and dull one.

I think it's mostly due to the fact of not acknowledging they chose the wrong path.

how do you think they can make it more fun?

Since we are not in a Suggestion & Feedback section, im not gonna explain ideas on how to make cities more fun to play. But i can tell you this much, there are lots of Scenario mechanics that are good, could pick some and combine them considering there are 3 stages, be creative. Also choosing a Stage mechanic that forces players to a 24v24 fight may be not be the best approach.

[Wam]

It is. They choose the way a City Siege is played, they can change every aspect of it. There are so many options to make Cities fun to play and somehow they chose the most broken and dull one.

I think it's mostly due to the fact of not acknowledging they chose the wrong path.

how do you think they can make it more fun?

Since we are not in a Suggestion & Feedback section, im not gonna explain ideas on how to make cities more fun to play. But i can tell you this much, there are lots of Scenario mechanics that are good, could pick some and combine them considering there are 3 stages, be creative. Also choosing a Stage mechanic that forces players to a 24v24 fight may be not be the best approach.

No matter how creative they go, players usually do creative cheese solutions... and if you are spltting 24vs24 you need even more leaders and they are in limited supply unfortunately so its hard to get right but i see where you are coming from. Like the change that you can only direct dmg to interupt capping was a nice improvement, the change to morale cheese pre combat etc was all positive improvements, the change to actual morale bombing helped out alot of lesser groups as well even if not a fan of training wheels because people had bad positioning and stacking.

[PlagueMonk]

It is. They choose the way a City Siege is played, they can change every aspect of it. There are so many options to make Cities fun to play and somehow they chose the most broken and dull one.

I think it's mostly due to the fact of not acknowledging they chose the wrong path.

how do you think they can make it more fun?

Since we are not in a Suggestion & Feedback section, im not gonna explain ideas on how to make cities more fun to play. But i can tell you this much, there are lots of Scenario mechanics that are good, could pick some and combine them considering there are 3 stages, be creative. Also choosing a Stage mechanic that forces players to a 24v24 fight may be not be the best approach.

Before I experienced a city, that's kind of how I imagined them working. There would be 5-6 different city scenarios and you would que up not knowing which SC/objective you would get. Some might be 12 mans, others 6, 24, etc. Hell if they did that, one could be specifically for PUGs like Reikland Factory. Instead it's this mega 3 stage melee ball business that rewards a particular playstyle.

[adapter]

Instead it's this mega 3 stage melee ball business that rewards a particular playstyle.

And that's one of the biggest issues of why cities are bad and need a rework.

[Aethilmar]

Instead it's this mega 3 stage melee ball business that rewards a particular playstyle.

And that's one of the biggest issues of why cities are bad and need a rework.

Almost all the complaints about classes not being "warband viable" stem from city (and city mechanics). If it wasn't for the end-game gear being there I doubt anyone would care about warband viability except for the hard-core guilds.

[Wam]

Instead it's this mega 3 stage melee ball business that rewards a particular playstyle.

And that's one of the biggest issues of why cities are bad and need a rework.

Almost all the complaints about classes not being "warband viable" stem from city (and city mechanics). If it wasn't for the end-game gear being there I doubt anyone would care about warband viability except for the hard-core guilds.

It effects order more because you have two top dogs (BW/Sl) stacking other classes gives you less in return, WL was the third option to stack a little but its been nerfed too... RSW/ENGI/WH pretty rough to stack (4+) and thats alot of Rsw/engi/wh players who want sov gear, best way is too city and so they take dps spots but organised groups do not want many of them.

In theory the good BW/SL population should gear up faster, eventually running out of competent BW/SL characters that need/want city compared to the demand there always is for them... thats how you see more of the niche classes in premades.

[adapter]

Almost all the complaints about classes not being "warband viable" stem from city (and city mechanics).

Yeah, so, in a way, by reworking the stages thus removing the typical AoE Train warband, could potentially change the meta and balance the game in some manner. It's a possibility, not certain, but, by changing the rules, the game could deeply change, hopefully for the better. Just need Devs willing to change their minds about City stage mechanics.

[Detangler]

Almost all the complaints about classes not being "warband viable" stem from city (and city mechanics).

Yeah, so, in a way, by reworking the stages thus removing the typical AoE Train warband, could potentially change the meta and balance the game in some manner. It's a possibility, not certain, but, by changing the rules, the game could deeply change, hopefully for the better. Just need Devs willing to change their minds about City stage mechanics.

No rule changes or meta shift will help all the solo queue DPS pug order players.

Can you change the stage rules around and push smaller scale stuff that welcomes single target damage on at least some stages? Absolutely.

Stage 1 - make objectives that spawn NPCs that attack the doors captureable. Now you need a stealthy or a good 1v1 class to guard objectives. Defenders could use a portal to get them out of the door area to sneak around and mess with objectives.

Stage 2 - Add trash mob champ soldiers that you have to fight off that attack and damage your lords so you have to escort both at the same time.

Stage 3 - Add capturable siege equipment/magical artifcat in a new additional area that champs cannot access. Winning control means either bombarding enemy team or heavily debuffing enemy champs.

There, I fixed cities for you. Now will that convince Order to play tanks and heals more?