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Defensive tanks

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Poll: What are the two hardest to kill tanks in the game in your oppinion with multiple people on them.

Poll ended at Sat Feb 20, 2021 9:32 am

KotBS
46
19%
Iron Breaker
70
28%
Sword Master
5
2%
Black Ork
60
24%
Black Guard
37
15%
Chosen
29
12%
Total votes: 247

lyncher12
Posts: 477

Re: Defensive tanks

Post#71 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:43 pm

abezverkhiy wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:22 pm
Absolutely agree with 2 previous posters. Like I said - what is the point? None.

SMs are very appealing as 2h brawlers but once in a while you ask yourself - why am I trying to squeeze dps out of a tank while not doing my core job which dps classes cannot do?
SM is really important if you are playing with a WL to cover the WL debuffs but they made WL pretty trash so :shrug:

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detrap
Posts: 264
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Re: Defensive tanks

Post#72 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:20 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:45 pm
Spoiler:
detrap wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:51 pm
CountTalabecland wrote:
Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:37 pm
Spoiler:
The problem is that 1) Knights don’t need vigilance to be tanky and (2) their specs are not as tightly budgeted on points as IB. An IB needs a precise build to get its city slot, Knight is so tanky generally that they are the go to tank.

A Knight w/on vigilance is still easier to build tanky than an IB in the same gear. Hence why knighy should win the poll.
A snb knight can do it's job better with vigilance, because they will die faster than an IB or SM when sitting in the blob trying to maximise it's aura debuffs, due to having slightly lower avoidance stats. IB and SM can easily have a higher base block state without having to hit a target to proc a buff to increase it. You basically need the snb IB to spec into the dps tree for the crit buff, if it's not needed by the group or you are in a pug premade, speccing into the tank tree gives far far superior guard damage avoidance tools than a knight could ever have.
Spoiler:
Before guard changes I might have agreed with you but I guarantee that 90% plus of IBs are only bringing parry buff from the tank tree. What else are you referring to as being in the tank tree that is far superior to the Knight? Oathbound is the better skill but Shield Mastery usually isn't worth it. 9/10 times your grp/wb is going to demand that you bring Ancestor's Fury. So your IB and Knight are going to have the same base block and Knight has a core block buff.

However, with the way guard dmg works now that parry buff isn't as good as it used to be for both classes, and Knight can bring a 100% uptime 15% disrupt buff in Gilded Shield. Furthermore, Knight can bring Coordination and will only have 10 % less parry when buffs are up. Note that Knight can also bring 100 WS from Runefang to shorten that gap a little.

Additionally, now that more guard damage gets through as all sources, raw stats are more important than ever in surviving it. The Knight's auras really brings over a ton of bang for your buck. If only knight had the old Runefang too. As it is, Knight gets 100 more toughness from tactic but IB can bring more armor if AI is used (but since the rework most IB's are not bringing AI either due to Told ya So being a must bring).

The knight could bring this build: RoR.builders - Knight of the Blazing Sun

Even if you dropped vigilance from this, this use of tactics will give you a better WB tank than an IB. The only thing this lacks against the standard IB build is 10% parry. But, you can bring Runefang for the extra WS and you can bring 15% disrupt Gilded Shield to stack with HTL. With Focused Mending and auras you have an altogether better tank for standing in the mosh pit and spamming htl and being a dmg sponge.

Knights do not die more easily than IB in any grp setting, there is a reason they are the go to tank, not IB.


Before guard changes I might have agreed with you but I guarantee that 90% plus of IBs are only bringing parry buff from the tank tree. What else are you referring to as being in the tank tree that is far superior to the Knight? Oathbound is the better skill but Shield Mastery usually isn't worth it. 9/10 times your grp/wb is going to demand that you bring Ancestor's Fury. So your IB and Knight are going to have the same base block and Knight has a core block buff.

Oathbound is one of the best skills in the game for avoiding guard damage, with shield mastery it is worth considering especially if you are a non sov tank. If you are in Sov, you may bring the crit buff instead but you can easily get grumble and mutter to help healers out during sweaty engagements. Knight should not pick up coordination because shield rush procs don't always land and you are wasting a tactic slot for something more useful this includes runefang for that matter as well, another wasted tactic slot because 9/10 times the warband will ask for you to have the ap aura.

However, with the way guard dmg works now that parry buff isn't as good as it used to be for both classes, and Knight can bring a 100% uptime 15% disrupt buff in Gilded Shield. Furthermore, Knight can bring Coordination and will only have 10 % less parry when buffs are up. Note that Knight can also bring 100 WS from Runefang to shorten that gap a little.

So the knight cannot bring 100% uptime on its block/parry buff unless you go around looking to tag people in the back or over extend to hit casters/pets, its not as reliable. The way guard damage works now too, the toughness buff from runefang is better than the weaponskill buff because when you have 250 weaponskill, the buff from runefang isn't going to help much since strikethrough affects guard damage.

Additionally, now that more guard damage gets through as all sources, raw stats are more important than ever in surviving it. The Knight's auras really brings over a ton of bang for your buck. If only knight had the old Runefang too. As it is, Knight gets 100 more toughness from tactic but IB can bring more armor if AI is used (but since the rework most IB's are not bringing AI either due to Told ya So being a must bring).

A knight should not be using Runefang in city unless they are 2H, there is no room or mastery points for it. For pugging snb orvr, yes.

Even if you dropped vigilance from this, this use of tactics will give you a better WB tank than an IB. The only thing this lacks against the standard IB build is 10% parry. But, you can bring Runefang for the extra WS and you can bring 15% disrupt Gilded Shield to stack with HTL. With Focused Mending and auras you have an altogether better tank for standing in the mosh pit and spamming htl and being a dmg sponge.

If I don't have vigilance, I have to slot these less useful tactics that undermine my role in the warband plus I'm stressing the healers out more. IB parry buff is 25% + iniative buff for you and anyone in the fight. Like I said the weaponskill buff from Runefang is not worth it when your weaponskill is already so low considering the stirkethrough mechanic. You will be dancing around the blob like the IB but offering less to the table in regards to putting real pressure on the blob.

Knights are the go to tank for any pug setting and it's ease of use, any mdps will prefer an IB over a knight. For blob control with cc the IB is also better. For assisting targets, the IB is better as well.
Knight - WP - Engie - BW

Mordd
Posts: 161

Re: Defensive tanks

Post#73 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:25 pm

emiliorv wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:51 pm
The only thing i got clear about this poll is that order forum warriors need more fake accounts to flip pools.
Its not surprising that there are more votes from destro. Its always been obvious there are more destro on the forums. There are more destro in game. Even when order has a large population advantage pushing zones, as soon as there is city the pop balance swings to destro for that easy mode city.

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