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The misconception about Engi/magi

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wonshot
Posts: 798

The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#1 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:24 pm

Alright I guess it is time to actually have this conversation.

There seem to be a wildly spread assumption that Engineer and Magus are two really poor classes, and they are never seeing invitations to City or orvr closed warbands.
So lets start by splitting this up, and I will try my very best to not name or shame here.

Most engineers and magi are not getting invited into City and oRvR simply because the careers are complex. Not only are we in a melee meta for Cities but the difference between an average engineer picked up on the streets of altdorf/ic and taken into engamge pvp is like night and day, compared to someone you know and trust can pull off the career. (for now avoding the "why" and "how"!)

So when there is such a big difference between underperforming average engineers/magi and topend engineers and magi who will outperform Everyone else in damagedone category, while bringing topend utility debuffs AND crowdcontrol plus being a rather durable damagedealing career. Then yes, the expectations are higher to the players who pilot these careers when it comes to endgame pvp.

Over the last couple of months a handful of Engineers and especially one magi have shown that they can output about double(and some times more) damage-done, than any other career in the game. Several of the City-siege related discords have plenty of screenshots and this claim is backed by those and a consistant performance above everyone else. Again only from a handful of players, and not by everyone piloting these careers(!)

Since there is this big difference in what average joy can do on the careers and what really good players can do, maybe that is something that should be focused on. Instead of instantly going into victum mode about "buhu how are we ever going to get invited now?".

I am by nomeans a perfect engineer player myself, I would actually go as far and saying I suck at playing the class when it comes to dealing damage. The controling part of the class, I do feel like I have a better grasp on. So when I make this post, I do have some hours on my 79 engineer in closed warband pvp mainly. Managing the turret mechanic and dishing out tops of damage was never what I wanted from the class, because in my eyes it is simply a powerhouse of utility and CC and I would run with one even if it dealt 1damage per ability.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... nknown.png

Magus and engineer internal differences aside, these two careers were outperforming everyone else for damage up untill last patch and after seeing others run the numbers this does look to be a damage nerf for sure. but im willing to bet on the really skilled pilot players can still be on the top-end of the scoreboard even after the patch.

If anyone is still not convinced and this this is unheard of nerfing these classes, maybe it is time to look towards how to improve and catch up because the classes are doing just fine. The might be harder to play, but that kinda comes along with having all those different abilities and figureing out when and how to use them.

Because the last few months Magus holds the record with 11mil damage done in instance1 premade vs premade.
And a couple of engineers have pulled simular numbers in premade vs premade involving some of the best players on the server against them.
Last edited by wonshot on Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stophy22
Posts: 401

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#2 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:45 pm

Did a city this morning where an engi got 8mil damage, topped charts, I'd say the class is still doing fine.

This should be a good eye opener for a lot of people or a viable reason to get mad for those unable to accept the truth.
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Shanell
Posts: 242

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#3 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 pm

I just want to ask - what were the numbers of healing done during these city sieges? I bet 1 toof that they were much higher than in mirros with no maguses/engis because these damage numbers are fluff damage.
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Cqengi
Posts: 18

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#4 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 pm

the truth is napalm is still broken, and bombling doesnt know the first thing about how these classes output their damage(and it has nothing to do with challenges/bellows). You could nerf engi/magus damage by 30-40% and they will still be topping damage, because devs are not adressing the real issue.

Neverever
Posts: 181

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#5 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:55 pm

Most of the engineers shedding tears under patch notes think that engineer play style is limited to turreting from range and sniping your targets but better players know the real power of engineer as a class lies on its close range mix of grenadier and tinkerer. The class gets both defensive, mobile and burstful that way. It not only overperforms in city play but also 6vs6.

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Shanell
Posts: 242

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#6 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:01 pm

Neverever wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:55 pm
Most of the engineers shedding tears under patch notes think that engineer play style is limited to turreting from range and sniping your targets but better players know the real power of engineer as a class lies on its close range mix of grenadier and tinkerer. The class gets both defensive, mobile and burstful that way. It not only overperforms in city play but also 6vs6.
You do realise that turrets and daemons are class mechanics, right?
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Cqengi
Posts: 18

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#7 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:02 pm

Neverever wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:55 pm
Most of the engineers shedding tears under patch notes think that engineer play style is limited to turreting from range and sniping your targets but better players know the real power of engineer as a class lies on its close range mix of grenadier and tinkerer. The class gets both defensive, mobile and burstful that way. It not only overperforms in city play but also 6vs6.
We are talking both engi/magus and what you just mentioned here applies to both. This tinkerer/grenadier spec is a very complex spec to play in 6v6 and capitalises on enemies inexperience on how to counter it. Also engineer is the least mobile dps you could have mentioned, and it does not get burst in this spec, they get high sustained reliable damage within a very small melee range area that they camp next to with their turrets. They can only shift their location every 20-30 seconds, and it is another 20 seconds after that before they reach max damage again.

Sundowner
Posts: 422

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#8 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:04 pm

overperforming engie in city and 6v6 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Stophy22
Posts: 401

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#9 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:04 pm

Shanell wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:53 pm
I just want to ask - what were the numbers of healing done during these city sieges? I bet 1 toof that they were much higher than in mirros with no maguses/engis because these damage numbers are fluff damage.
I am so very confused by this type of logic, lol.

Longer cities=More time to do damage.
More damage done=more healing done.
More healing done=damage was fluff?

**** I've been looking at this the wrong way for a long time...

But back on topic its always fun seeing the whole, "engi and magus damage is just fluff" statement getting thrown out there. I guess max DB's is also fluff, but I guess those are just fluff DB's or KSing cause fluff damage, right? Gimme a break
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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1896

Re: The misconception about Engi/magi

Post#10 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:21 pm

The good engi/magus were getting invites before last ~12% dmg nerf (less than that if you have champ +70% on top of old 60% dmg modifier) and the good engi/magi will be getting warband invites just fine in future.
The bad /5 pug players who play in guilds of 2-3 players that assume soloqueueing for city is the normal way of getting endgame gear will be the one who have just as hard time before when it comes to getting warband spots.
Almost nothing changed.

Welcome down to the bottom, hope you stay down here with your fellow WE/WHs for a while

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