Observations on PvP

[Dreadstone]

(Preface, long-time MMO player here, from 'The Realm' to DAOC to Warhammer to Rift to Wow to many more)

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I came back to RoR because WoW is unrecognizable these days. Have enjoyed the game, albeit with frustration at certain aspects.

1) Assist

From a PUG standpoint, I get that people are just going to do whatever. Communication is almost 100% non-existent on Destro side. Having said that:

Destro side - In both SC's and RvR, I have never, EVER, heard someone in a SC, (to be expected) but much worse in RvR say, "So and so is main assist". EVER.

Order - OTOH, one of the first things my Order guild did is tell me to DL a particular add-on, (Quite familiar with those as a former WoW player). enabling assist.

2) Objectives. (SC)

Destro side - Largely ignored. Either people want to follow the crowd, don't know how to win, or don't care. No explanation on what objectives are worth points (* 1 * exception), simply run in, do as much damage as possible, hope the healers can keep you up.

Order - You'd think the PUGs had magic assist. Focus Fire, kill, lather, rinse, repeat. (Good job btw)

3) Healers / Casters

Destro side - largely ignored. Combine ignoring healers (allowing them to free cast) and tanks not putting up guard - ON ANYONE - and the scenario is usually a bloodbat.

Order - Never seem to roll in with less than two heals, often four. (with cross healing, this is a game over unless you can separate / CC)

4) RvR

I have seen:

a) Destro ignore their Ram as it is bludgeoned. Destro not protect a Ram. Destro ignore Order Ram. (Other absurdities, this is off the top of my head)

b) Order. Use their Ram as a decoy. (Sacrifice a keep to take a next level fortification)

All-in-all, I'm just kind of disappointed at the level of play. I get healer disparity. (I don't blame Destro healers for not wanting to queue, as they are FF'ed, not guarded, and people fight out of LOS). I don't get not understanding that letting enemy caster free cast is a sure-fire way to lose.

Thanks for letting me rant.

[billyk]

Weird, never experienced any of this on Destro, only on Order.

[Collision]

In general the game play level of the server is low. But they are good guild from each side.

Assist : i think i'll learn nothing to you, as you are an old DAOC player, rvr is aoe bombing on your lead. Try to join 2/2/2 leader who are looking for people on /5 /Tx etc..
in sc just use your add-on assist on a teamate who focus healers.

Objectives : a lot of people Xrealm just to push to the easiest city to gear their char...

Healers/Caster : The guard is 30ft range and the priority is for melee dps. For assist on healer, teamplay with a premade. Destro who don't guard : you are just unlucky that not my case.

RvR : order are very passive and wait a lot in keep if they don't out number destro. Destro pop ram in every situation and 90% time not in the good moment.

Conclusion : FIND PEOPLE TO PLAY WITH. NO OVERFLOW WB ! and you will have fun.

[Aethilmar]

Your experience in SCs and RvR will depend greatly on time of day as well as which side the main guilds are playing their Destro or Order alts. The reality is the "really good players" tend to play guilds on both sides. In other words "they" are actually "us" on a cyclic basis and the quality of a side varies depending on which toons the practiced players are on.

Occasionally you will get a really good fights where you run into solid teams on both sides but generally speaking one side will stomp the other due to either skill differences (only really relevant in SC stomps) or numeric differences (most prevalent in RvR).

[arorwne]

This is completely true. You forgot to mention the gear dependency, usually better geared side will win(unless there is a massive difference in Healer numbers / quality). Also, the Healer dependency.

It is so good when it happens, it's just that it don't happen that often(thus, I'd rather just organize a PvE run and have guaranteed fun). If you ask me, RR should be given only for fighting enemies, but that is only me.

[Meliannia]

t.

2) Objectives. (SC)

Destro side - Largely ignored. Either people want to follow the crowd, don't know how to win, or don't care. No explanation on what objectives are worth points (* 1 * exception), simply run in, do as much damage as possible, hope the healers can keep you up.

Order - You'd think the PUGs had magic assist. Focus Fire, kill, lather, rinse, repeat. (Good job btw)

this point has been made several times by me in by posts esp the post about getting the weekend event scen changed from destro 95% win king of the hill to multibase scens 50% win for each, this week is nordenwatch tuvm Gms for keeping your word!!

Black crag keep was so much fun last week and so balanced and equal the usual destro premade didnt even farm it because they couldn't because they would LOSE in 8mins, instead of winning in 2msin flat non stop in king of the hills, it wasn't profitable for them so the destro premades departed and the good games for the rest of the community started and flourished gj gms. the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few.



in the main the Op is right, destro will zerg all together and stand at one spot and killfest all game they do this in all scens doesnt matter if its king of hill, flag run, or multiple bases, they think kills wins scens, this is why destro premades are beatable in any scen that is not king of the hill theyll farm 22 kills at 1 base or even at no bases. just a random spot on map, then look around with open jawed confusion when they lose the scens 500-350 coz order took bases or ran flags past them, this is especially prevalent in altdorf war quarters where there are 5 or 6 bases to take. Usually there are 2 or 3 guys on an order team who understand how bases work, (10 who dont) they score 200 to 450 points among themselves just from taking detsro bases and capturing bases for order those 2or 3 guys would be decimated in king of the hill by the destro blob, have just won the game!

To be fair to destro its not a destro only phenomena there are order premades who actually believe in a 3 bases scens holding middle alone wins the game, it doesnt, you need middle plus 1 ideally, or even 2 outer, you can win with middle alone if you get 30 kills there or have another base neutral most of the game. If you let enemy get 2 bases and u r not killing them u will lose unless u move fom centre and take a 2nd base.

these ppl will scream hysterically every1 must go centre and stay centre all game as a blob doesn't matter if its logain forge, dragon bane, altdorf war quarters, nordenwatch, gates of ekrund. they even do it on flag runs like howling gorge and stonetroll theyll fight middle non stop chasing kills while the opponent takes the flag or all bases, and wins the game, these ppl when confronted why they lost and explained to them how the scen works instead of taking it on board will instantly enrage in hysterics scream abuse at you and put u on ignore, so called premades.

if you want unthinking no tactics non stop wins and slaughter chain kills as a strong premade team, go king for the hill, other wise if you want a good closer fight choose something else but be aware you may actually lose to lesser geared but tactically superior players.

You cant play all scens the same, thats why there are different types of scen your game play and tactics should change for each.

[emiliorv]

As a long-time MMO player you SHOULD know how usually PUGs perform....and this taking into account that RoR is much more pug-friendly than other old-school MMOs (like DAOC for example).

The question about how different realms-pugs perform is totally "subjetive", you can experience that order-pugs perform better while other ppl experience just the contrary simply playing in different timezones...

as a LONG-TIME MMO PLAYER you should know that you can avoid all this "pug drama" simply playing as a organized grp/wb (better into a guild environment)....your life will be much easier in-game and will take much more fun....so please, if you learned something in your long-time MMO experience its time to apply it in ROR.

[Collision]

this point has been made several times by me in by posts esp the post about getting the weekend event scen changed from destro 95% win king of the hill to multibase scens 50% win for each, this week is nordenwatch tuvm Gms for keeping your word!!

Black crag keep was so much fun last week and so balanced and equal the usual destro premade didnt even farm it because they couldn't because they would LOSE in 8mins, instead of winning in 2msin flat non stop in king of the hills.

No, it's because no premade want to wait 2 hours for a sc pop.

"Blablabla destro no brain blablabla"
nordenwatch, gates of ekrund. they even do it on flag runs like howling gorge and stonetroll theyll fight middle non stop chasing kills while the opponent takes the flag or all bases, and wins the game, these ppl when confronted why they lost and explained to them how the scen works instead of taking it on board will instantly enrage in hysterics scream abuse at you and put u on ignore, so called premades.

if you want unthinking no tactics non stop wins and slaughter chain kills as a strong premade team, go king for the hill, other wise if you want a good closer fight choose something else but be aware you may actually lose to lesser geared but tactically superior players.

You cant play all scens the same, thats why there are different types of scen your game play and tactics should change for each.

Do you know in nordenwatch, just holding middle give more points than the 2 others obj ? it will be like a king of the hill sc.

Your ego again
More i read you and more i think you take destro solo players for premades and brainless people ...

[Manatikik]

this point has been made several times by me in by posts esp the post about getting the weekend event scen changed from destro 95% win king of the hill to multibase scens 50% win for each, this week is nordenwatch tuvm Gms for keeping your word!!

Black crag keep was so much fun last week and so balanced and equal the usual destro premade didnt even farm it because they couldn't because they would LOSE in 8mins, instead of winning in 2msin flat non stop in king of the hills.

No, it's because no premade want to wait 2 hours for a sc pop.

"Blablabla destro no brain blablabla"
nordenwatch, gates of ekrund. they even do it on flag runs like howling gorge and stonetroll theyll fight middle non stop chasing kills while the opponent takes the flag or all bases, and wins the game, these ppl when confronted why they lost and explained to them how the scen works instead of taking it on board will instantly enrage in hysterics scream abuse at you and put u on ignore, so called premades.

if you want unthinking no tactics non stop wins and slaughter chain kills as a strong premade team, go king for the hill, other wise if you want a good closer fight choose something else but be aware you may actually lose to lesser geared but tactically superior players.

You cant play all scens the same, thats why there are different types of scen your game play and tactics should change for each.

Do you know in nordenwatch, just holding middle give more points than the 2 others obj ? it will be like a king of the hill sc.

Your ego again
More i read you and more i think you take destro solo players for premades and brainless people ...

They changed Norden like a year ago so Fort is equal points to LH and Barracks not worth 2x.

[GamesBond]

Do you know in nordenwatch, just holding middle give more points than the 2 others obj ? it will be like a king of the hill sc.

They changed Norden like a year ago so Fort is equal points to LH and Barracks not worth 2x.

Kill = 4 points
Capture Fortress = 20 points
Hold Fortress = 3 points per tick
Capture Lighthouse = 15 points
Hold Lighthouse = 2 points per tick
Capture Barracks = 15 points
Hold barracks = 2 points per tick

https://wiki.returnofreckoning.com/Nordenwatch

So technically holding mid alone isn't enough, however if you hold mid and keep on wiping the enemy team for some reason then yeah Fort is enough. But usually if you have the sides, you can ignore Fort because it's a total of 30pts vs 20pts for capturing, and 4pts vs 3pts per tick.