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Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

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Rowanmantle
Posts: 204

Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#91 » Sun May 09, 2021 2:05 am

Honestly just close this thread. Its run its course and evidently us xrealmers and people who wish to gear characters on both sides are bad for its health.

Feels like reading politics from a third world country, which funny enough I reside in, although I believe at least South Africa would have made a better argument. (and they still believe in black magic FYI) here then conspiracy theories involving "networks" or whole "groups" controlling rvr.

Oh lets not forget exploiting and circumventing system mechanics to play the side you want to.

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Mordd
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#92 » Sun May 09, 2021 6:57 am

This isnt really about xrealming in general. I see a lot of talk of that. But many that are for this dont care if you play both sides as most players do. Its about NA killing ORVR, everyone zerging one realm and going 150 vs 50 in zones and forts to PVE zones to a city and then flipping to Destro in most cases to defend easy cities.

If people were actually worried about population balance this is the best change that can happen. You really want to help the underdog side. Get out there in the lakes and fort and play the underdog side. Dont everyone zerg one side and then flip for city and pretend you are doing it for realm pop balance. You are doing it for your self. You already screwed the underdog realm to get to city.

At least Brew is honest. He doesnt care what the devs want or what other want. Play how he wants and farm gear. I really hate to say it but it sounds like he would be much happier in a gear grind game like WoW than in a ORVR game.

The design of the game was always about ORVR, City was a bonus for ORVR. It was never the main content. A few select players in NA have decided to game the system and try and avoid ORVR and just pve doors to city.

Now you may, gasp actually have to try in ORVR and actually have the better WB in ORVR to get city.

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Rowanmantle
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#93 » Sun May 09, 2021 8:34 am

Mordd wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 6:57 am This isnt really about xrealming in general. I see a lot of talk of that. But many that are for this dont care if you play both sides as most players do. Its about NA killing ORVR, everyone zerging one realm and going 150 vs 50 in zones and forts to PVE zones to a city and then flipping to Destro in most cases to defend easy cities.

If people were actually worried about population balance this is the best change that can happen. You really want to help the underdog side. Get out there in the lakes and fort and play the underdog side. Dont everyone zerg one side and then flip for city and pretend you are doing it for realm pop balance. You are doing it for your self. You already screwed the underdog realm to get to city.

At least Brew is honest. He doesnt care what the devs want or what other want. Play how he wants and farm gear. I really hate to say it but it sounds like he would be much happier in a gear grind game like WoW than in a ORVR game.

The design of the game was always about ORVR, City was a bonus for ORVR. It was never the main content. A few select players in NA have decided to game the system and try and avoid ORVR and just pve doors to city.

Now you may, gasp actually have to try in ORVR and actually have the better WB in ORVR to get city.
So me playing marauder because I need bags and medals and renown is not good enough? I should rather swap over then to play the underdog just to appease the masses who believe population is broken.

Then I swap over to order, make a wb and slowly start dwindling down the destro numbers until eventually they also no longer remain a threat? Either side during NA do not fight unless there are wb's to fight.

So because people feel bullied and persecuted during NA times, others are forced to play certain sides just to "balance". Do you people actually play during these hours? To take a fort you need organized wb's. You cannot simply yolo it and hope it works. So that's why I make wb for it along with FoW recently because its what it took to secure one on destro.

Same could be said for order, however NA destro seem to just go sit on third floor never even bothering to mount a defence.

Then you people come here and throw ORVR out there like some great incentive. Sure, then we make wb's to fight whatever is out there, until said opposition wipes enough times that they too then log and slowly lose the cannon fodder (pugs) who backed them. Then it becomes one sided again.

So if city was never the end goal of an eventual Campaign then why not have a longer timer on city? If the incentive is to play ORVR.

AGAIN

@Dalen @Wargrimnir

Please just close the damn thread already. Its utterly pointless.

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Last edited by Rowanmantle on Sun May 09, 2021 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Stophy22
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#94 » Sun May 09, 2021 8:47 am

I think there is a really big miscommunication as to what people think xrealming is and how people who don't xrealm are affected by it.

Maybe if we had a civilized conversation on that (LOL) we could maybe further a productive solution.

But I agree text doesn't really convey the best conversation so maybe just shut it down because this thread has gone full pepega
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Greenbeast
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#95 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:08 am

Wam wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 5:55 pm so let me get this correct

You prefer the old system where order pushed empty zones 3-1 and there was 2 star ic everyday? and destro was effectively throwing forts something many players got threatened with bans for mentioning in region chat in the past (but are effectively doing with actions or lack of with third floor defenses and not contesting)

as for people who are so short sighted despite plenty of experience (its kinda sad to be honest to be that biased in opinion) MOMENTUM CHANGES SIDE, some people LOG the underdog, eventually they stop the attacker and momentum switches, they then push and keep on pushing until there is a drastic error which again causes another switch in momentum and people stop / swap sides... Its hard to believe how naive people with over 10 hours experience in orvr, and some here have hundreds if not thousands of hours of experience yet stick their head in sand and don't acknowledge poor design choices of game because it doesnt personally effect their style of play in the game, they dont care about general health of the server lmao very sad.

More action, and more organised is better for health of server... justifying poor design choices is very strange as we all know forts and the que system is the weaker part of the game. Forts are boring turgid gameplay compared to other aspects of the game where it blossoms and shines like it should and why the majority of players are here...

In a thread not so long ago you are telling people to get organised... they get organised then they get overlooked, a few days ago FOW fought hard and pushed hard for minimum of 6 hours, for 5 star altdorf, they didnt get pop, last night another group pushed hard for 4 hours atleast and didnt get pop... instead people who log in, (or people who dont bother to attend forts can swap sides) and you get in before groups... so instead of organised in city, you want random afk leach in city with more turgid random gameplay, this is what this change is effectively saying and embracing.

Eventually you will kill desire of organised groups, and it will go back to boring 3-1 push city every day (pure zerging) but you think x realming to balance population is the problem ? LMAO... I never understand this mentality, a few years ago with less anti x realm mechanics the server was better despite all the toxicity and drama that came from other areas of the game, it was more fun because you can generate your own action and chase the renown / action as underdog... unless you only played one side and roleplayed heavily and actually believed the other side is evil incarnate like some posters seem to think instead of just actual other players just like you and your teammates lol.

NA destro gets reinvigorated thanks to SF/FOW/Pride swapping for fun and balance at times, so EWG are not all alone being zerged... then you implement a change like this, but for the longest time it was okay for order to push NA uncontested forts that was thrown

Also grunbe why you not mention TUP? 8-)
Wam, what are you talking about in this post?
I'm talking about something that started to occur 2-3 months ago. Some premades did log on dominating side to ensure a fast city push to then switch to lower population and get 100% city instance. This has nothing to do with x-realming same as 90 min fort lock has nothing to do with it. Nor this kind of organization contributes to any interesting game play.
This decision kills orvr and makes fort defense impossible. In my opinion there is absolutely no difference between throwing a fort and log into dominating side to take a fort that has 163 attackers and 50 defenders(yeah, because ratio is disabled).
That approach doesn't generate anything on underdog. 1:7 ration means no good fights. And this 1:8 ratio is intentionally created for a city push. I don't understand what kind of good content or fights do you mean.

The organization for the majority of the population on this server works like this - half of the people you pushed with will not get city instance not only due to population balance but because they won't have organized warband at 0:00 seconds to queue in the opposite to you or they will have to queue later because they have 12 man + pugs and can't afford to queue at 0:00.
I personally find that argument about better content for everybody very disonest. You're not arguing for a better content for everybody(in that particular case) but for the better content for your organization. Because it's your organization that does benefit from x-realm since you depend on discord/alliance players for a city warband.

The main issue of this game is the fact that the end game content is uncontrolable by a player. It's random.
I'm not a developer and as long as the end game is so random(random time, uncontrolable in efforts and conditions) there will be no change in the quality.

I didn't mention TUP because I don't see you in EU prime time on days when PnP plays. PnP is an event guild and a part of Nobodies alliance. We play with FMJ, EWG, VII and other guilds in /a. I cooperate with FOW and AOW if they're active. PnP did and do duels with Smash, RT, Bene, NGE, we offered skirmishes to FOW. TUP was never interested in any skirmishes.
I haven't seen a TUP warband in orvr since summer 2020.
So we play on different days and we don't share a common interested in 24vs24 and we don't cooperate during city pushes.
That's why I don't talk about TUP.

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normanis
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#96 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:33 am

basicly destro zerg vs 100% order aao ( boredorm) eu
or
order zerg vs 0 resistence from destro (boredorm) na
i think bring back control battle objectives to split zerg , more battle objectives 1 side control its make stronger or weaker enemy siege units , also keep lord hit harder ( and vuala nomore 1/2 star city pushes)
game become zerg feast, 24 aoe cap shoud fix it byt destro premades zerg even more.
i play in guild and we mostly find not zerg fights. what happened with players. when i started with premades we didnt zerg and aoe cap was 6/9 depends class, we looked for fights we loosed byt it was fun. now if u whant less effort just go zerg and call it what u whant alliance or zerg, its prety pve keep. boredorm , ppl will switch to winner side because who like to be stomped??? or blody wc pushes like there is nothing to do just camp wc ( i mean nothing has changed from norsca/nodland, lets call it norsca syndrom)
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GamesBond
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#97 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:36 am

Rowanmantle wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:44 am I am open to hear any feedback on this, I am also not ignorant and understand why this extender was put in place, yet feel that during NA times it serves little purpose for those who actually want to make a difference in the lakes.
Rowanmantle wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:34 am Please just close the damn thread already. Its utterly pointless.
This thread won't be locked just because the outcome didn't appeal to you so please stop asking. Till now everyone looks respectful in sharing their opinions, you should respect that, even if you don't agree with them.

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Rowanmantle
Posts: 204

Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#98 » Sun May 09, 2021 9:49 am

GamesBond wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 9:36 am
Rowanmantle wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:44 am I am open to hear any feedback on this, I am also not ignorant and understand why this extender was put in place, yet feel that during NA times it serves little purpose for those who actually want to make a difference in the lakes.
Rowanmantle wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:34 am Please just close the damn thread already. Its utterly pointless.
This thread won't be locked just because the outcome didn't appeal to you so please stop asking. Till now everyone looks respectful in sharing their opinions, you should respect that, even if you don't agree with them.
I don't care about the outcome, in the beginning I believed this server had a semblance of knowledge about how the rvr actually plays out, it quickly became evident that they would rather theory craft conspiracy theories. So trying to make it seem that i'm just salty because people don't agree with me is ridiculous.

I just think the thread should be locked because clearly the few who should know something, proved they didn't and the rest believe that orvr is run by some "Illuminati" based groups controlling the outcome.

"circumventing system mechanics"

So this thread is simply a giant meme instead of a serious discussion.

Thank you for replying though.
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wonshot
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#99 » Sun May 09, 2021 10:04 am

On the subject of oRvR quality fights and city quality fights.

Yes City has the format, and a potential of a queue system that should create somewhat more interesting and even fights (ignore city mmr topic for now the server is too small)
You get the 24v24 even numbers fight, there is a loot carrot with royals, and you have the objective(winning the instance) to force a fight.

But still many of the instances are not that high quality fights, most of the time they end up with a landslide, or one side stop coming out if they feel outgunned.
In oRvR if you are a roaming event-guild you have alot of options, if you do feel like the enemy guild who just ran you over have stronger organization experienced leadership or better gear you have the option to call for aid, play your engages differently and get a flank suprice attack or build morales of smaller groups and have morale advantage when engagement. Is this more fair fighting? oh absolutely not, but in a pvp based game there has to be a loosing side and if the loss = no point trying, then pvp dies. As we see in some instances where its missmatched.

City MMR would in a perfect world solve some of this. But we dont even have a big enough playerbase for MMR to work for 6v6 soloqueue ranked so no way in hell would we have enough of a playerbase for citysiege mmr :D

oRvR is the unfair battlefield where everything goes. if you wanna run 24dps AMs and dot a poor soul to death, then go do it. If you want to run alliance blobs and coordinate flank attacks go do it, orvr cant really be blanced the way 6v6 can. As you can overstack, and zerg with some abilities where the game kinda breaks a little.
That doesnt mean that this gamemode is not fun and appealing. We still see monday and wedsday being active in EU prime with close to 3-5guilds per realm clashing and brawling it out in the lakes. City is a random event you cant plan for, so guilds are still mostly Event-guilds and not city-guilds.
oRvR have been in a pretty danm boring state in terms of promoting fighting, spreading out and fighting over the Battleobjectives. With the old outdated mindset goal of having the campaign taking priority so we can reach these cities and players get their gear.

If oRvR was more appealing in terms of promoting fights, adding value in holding the BOs and spreading the action out during the duration of an active zone, then maybe some of the endgeared top organized roamers would not join the overpopulated side and push for City to get their fix for "quality fight" chances. But instead seak them in oRvR.

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anarchypark
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Re: Addressing the 90 min Elephant in the room.

Post#100 » Sun May 09, 2021 12:11 pm

24vs24 good battles are waiting in city. ( so they say )
endure little pvd if enemy gave up.
crush stalemate if enemy fight back.
xrealm is not controlling population.
cuz there are tons of exploiters to twist it to their gains.

wake up from delusion that xrealm's creating balance.
balanced means stalemate.
stalemate means no progress to end contents.
how often do u see xrealmers stopping orvr progress ? it's opposite.

stalemate's not subject of good or bad. it's just way of war played.
it gives motivation to push harder.
to the point where you try bold betting which often fails and break stalemate by your loss.
sometimes win and break enemy morales. followed by few PvD. i guess it's natural course.

end contents must be open. stalemate have to be broken.
but not by throw or xrealm.
you want it? fight for it. simple.

xrealm's the easiest way to break stalemate, easiest way to open fort/city.
it ruins game design of progress and motivation.
turning war game into grind farm.
why so desperately farming in free game ?

since GM and many others threatened ban about throwing, ppl don't do it openly. but disguised as xrealm.
now they even promoting themselves as city opening heroes ?
i wonder what new method would they invent if lock timer increased.

i recommend to teach them commitment. fight to the end until prove yourself.
if they value xrealm so much, you have to earn it.
Last edited by anarchypark on Sun May 09, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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