So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

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MonkeyHead
Posts: 24

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#231 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:21 pm

raistomen wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:38 pm
zulnam wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 9:32 am
Can confirm I've heard talks about certain groups of people having access to an altered NB that still works.

I for one am happy for it's removal. In a classic pvp mmorpg, shortcut management and memory is part of the competitive edge. You don't ask for an aimbot in counter strike to "level" the playing field against opponents with faster reflexes.

But I feel like this is truly a divisive matter and should be dealt with tact. Guilds I've heard about or talked with so far have all had a 50-50 split on the issue, with some wanting NB banned and some not. And, while I don't agree with those that went out of their way to literally cheat instead of adapt, I also don't want to see them driven off or perma banned, since they are part of the community (for better, or worse).

Not sure how we can help them tbh, short (HAH) of making a guide on shortcut management. Seriously, fellas; it ain't that hard.

1-5
Alt+1-5
Ctrl+1-5
Shift+1-5
Q
E
Alt+Q
Alt+E
Shift+Q
Shift+E

^- 26 buttons. Don't even need an MMO mouse for that.
EVERQUEST HAD MACROS

kids these days

thinking they OG for playing WoW
Hey everyone, we can all calm down now, this guy found the Alt key! We were all just too stupid to know that we could bind more than 5 abilities. Man how foolish it was to build a complex system to manage buttons when we could just all contort our hands in crazy ways to hit a key for the 26 skills this game has that should really just be 5... Huzza for our savior the alt key finder!

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Dabbart
Posts: 2120

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#232 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am

Btw, on the 26 hotkeys:
x4 movement Keys(WASD)
Jump
Armor Pot
Liniment/Stat Pot
x2 health pots
x2 AP Pots
HoT pot
Absorp pot
Snare pot
Flame pot
X4 Morales
Flee
Mount
Assist
Target

That's 23 hotkeys(w/o some form of sequencer), that every class should have/use.

Take a fairly simple class like WP/DoK;

Detaunt
Cleanse
Grp Heal
ST HoT
ST Heal(AP)
ST Heal(Resources)
Grp Hot
Grp Shield
Supplication
Rez
AoE Punt
Smite
Silence
Shatter
Snare
x2 Auras
Fist of Khaine/Judgement

That's another 18. While leaving 10ish abilities off your hotbar(not counting SnB and 2h/DW abilities). That's 41 hotkeys, for some of the simplest classes. Any tank will have more, IB/BG will have over 60. Sure, you don't "have" to have everything on a hotkey, but that is just limiting your gameplay if you have to click abilities. Why would you do that? The use of some form of sequencer is almost mandatory imo, unless ofc you're a 380+APM pro.

Btw, I used 34 hotkeys on my toons with NB: `, Tab, F1-4, 1-4, QERT, M1, M2, Shift+1-4 QERT, Alt+ 1-4 QERT, WASD, Space. Generally, the most I would string out would be 3 abilities tied to one key. More than that and you get hamstrung.

Lastly... Can I ask the long term solution here? Anyone can create an addon for RoR. Anyone can alter scripts or create a macro(press ESC, Macro, and there is a list of precreated ones to use or use Google) with just a little knowledge. So, what's the long game here? Will players be banned for using unapproved addons as botters? Are you going to make a list of approved, and banned addons? Will you be scanning active addons upon server login? Or will it simply be the cool kids that can stack hotkeys efficiently, and the rest play 2/3 of their class?

/rant.
Azarael wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:30 pm
It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)

User avatar
Onigokko0101
Posts: 192

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#233 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:41 am

Dabbart wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am
Btw, on the 26 hotkeys:
x4 movement Keys(WASD)
Jump
Armor Pot
Liniment/Stat Pot
x2 health pots
x2 AP Pots
HoT pot
Absorp pot
Snare pot
Flame pot
X4 Morales
Flee
Mount
Assist
Target

That's 23 hotkeys(w/o some form of sequencer), that every class should have/use.

Take a fairly simple class like WP/DoK;

Detaunt
Cleanse
Grp Heal
ST HoT
ST Heal(AP)
ST Heal(Resources)
Grp Hot
Grp Shield
Supplication
Rez
AoE Punt
Smite
Silence
Shatter
Snare
x2 Auras
Fist of Khaine/Judgement

That's another 18. While leaving 10ish abilities off your hotbar(not counting SnB and 2h/DW abilities). That's 41 hotkeys, for some of the simplest classes. Any tank will have more, IB/BG will have over 60. Sure, you don't "have" to have everything on a hotkey, but that is just limiting your gameplay if you have to click abilities. Why would you do that? The use of some form of sequencer is almost mandatory imo, unless ofc you're a 380+APM pro.

Btw, I used 34 hotkeys on my toons with NB: `, Tab, F1-4, 1-4, QERT, M1, M2, Shift+1-4 QERT, Alt+ 1-4 QERT, WASD, Space. Generally, the most I would string out would be 3 abilities tied to one key. More than that and you get hamstrung.

Lastly... Can I ask the long term solution here? Anyone can create an addon for RoR. Anyone can alter scripts or create a macro(press ESC, Macro, and there is a list of precreated ones to use or use Google) with just a little knowledge. So, what's the long game here? Will players be banned for using unapproved addons as botters? Are you going to make a list of approved, and banned addons? Will you be scanning active addons upon server login? Or will it simply be the cool kids that can stack hotkeys efficiently, and the rest play 2/3 of their class?

/rant.
If its really about the sequencer they have made their own sequencer, and are updating it to be better.

Lets be honest, to many people yourself included its not about the sequencer or the hotkeys, you want conditionals.
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Nusku- Bright Wizard

Dabbart
Posts: 2120

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#234 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:04 am

I don't want anything in regards to addons. I haven't played in months and have no desire to login. That feeling has nothing to do with addons. I said nothing about conditionals, I just listed hotkeys and asked if there is a plan. If I return and find I want to build a string, I will make a macro for it, or ask a buddy to help me with it. Or use their sequencer if it works for what I want it too. Or, as long as it's not a bannable offence, I will simply use Google and find a workable version of NB.

I'm glad they are updating that sequencer, the feedback thread sounds like it is basically worthless as is. Pity PlanB already existed but has the exact same issues. Cause w/o conditionals, it's going to break really easily, all it will do is attempt to fire the next ability in the chain. GL using that with a CD increaser on you...

Btw, you do know you can build click-casting with a few conditionals through Enemy? It breaks really easily, but I used to use it for WB cleanse/HoTs. I think Squared has the same thing. Enemy is the most broken Addon in the game imo. It literally breaks LoS rules with it's Marker function... But that's another story..
Azarael wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:30 pm
It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)

User avatar
Akalukz
Posts: 1081

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#235 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:55 am

Onigokko0101 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:41 am
Spoiler:
Dabbart wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am
Btw, on the 26 hotkeys:
x4 movement Keys(WASD)
Jump
Armor Pot
Liniment/Stat Pot
x2 health pots
x2 AP Pots
HoT pot
Absorp pot
Snare pot
Flame pot
X4 Morales
Flee
Mount
Assist
Target

That's 23 hotkeys(w/o some form of sequencer), that every class should have/use.

Take a fairly simple class like WP/DoK;

Detaunt
Cleanse
Grp Heal
ST HoT
ST Heal(AP)
ST Heal(Resources)
Grp Hot
Grp Shield
Supplication
Rez
AoE Punt
Smite
Silence
Shatter
Snare
x2 Auras
Fist of Khaine/Judgement

That's another 18. While leaving 10ish abilities off your hotbar(not counting SnB and 2h/DW abilities). That's 41 hotkeys, for some of the simplest classes. Any tank will have more, IB/BG will have over 60. Sure, you don't "have" to have everything on a hotkey, but that is just limiting your gameplay if you have to click abilities. Why would you do that? The use of some form of sequencer is almost mandatory imo, unless ofc you're a 380+APM pro.

Btw, I used 34 hotkeys on my toons with NB: `, Tab, F1-4, 1-4, QERT, M1, M2, Shift+1-4 QERT, Alt+ 1-4 QERT, WASD, Space. Generally, the most I would string out would be 3 abilities tied to one key. More than that and you get hamstrung.

Lastly... Can I ask the long term solution here? Anyone can create an addon for RoR. Anyone can alter scripts or create a macro(press ESC, Macro, and there is a list of precreated ones to use or use Google) with just a little knowledge. So, what's the long game here? Will players be banned for using unapproved addons as botters? Are you going to make a list of approved, and banned addons? Will you be scanning active addons upon server login? Or will it simply be the cool kids that can stack hotkeys efficiently, and the rest play 2/3 of their class?

/rant.
If its really about the sequencer they have made their own sequencer, and are updating it to be better.

Lets be honest, to many people yourself included its not about the sequencer or the hotkeys, you want conditionals.
It's about ease of using multiple classes, i could care less about any conditional outside of cool down. Make the sequencer recognize cool downs, and i would be good to go.
-= Agony =-

mynban
Posts: 37

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#236 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:00 am

All the pretense about people actually pressing buttons is so funny. Everyone has macros that chain multiple skills.

I have seen so many engis on keep walls that toggle their rotation on and go afk (first key in rotation is TAB). It is ridiculous that people think NB being gone is end of story. NB is not even gone. And many new addons will emerge that does practically same thing.

Only thing thats gone is the accessibility of that convenience, not the tool itself.

Oh sorry there is a second thing that's gone; 1/3 of population.

mogt
Posts: 417

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#237 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:26 am

again the population is stable, i dont know, why the players wrote 1/3 population or 50 % are gone, that is false, look at the numbers.

User avatar
Alfa1986
Posts: 469

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#238 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 7:54 am

mogt wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:26 am
again the population is stable, i dont know, why the players wrote 1/3 population or 50 % are gone, that is false, look at the numbers.
you mean 700 people online on Friday night at prime time EU is it okay? when a little less than a month ago it was 1500 in average.
if the population decreases further down to 400-200 people in prime time then ...
15th orks on a dead elf's chest
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum

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Farrul
Posts: 35

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#239 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:13 am

Dabbart wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 12:17 am
Btw, on the 26 hotkeys:
x4 movement Keys(WASD)
Jump
Armor Pot
Liniment/Stat Pot
x2 health pots
x2 AP Pots
HoT pot
Absorp pot
Snare pot
Flame pot
X4 Morales
Flee
Mount
Assist
Target

That's 23 hotkeys(w/o some form of sequencer), that every class should have/use.

Take a fairly simple class like WP/DoK;

Detaunt
Cleanse
Grp Heal
ST HoT
ST Heal(AP)
ST Heal(Resources)
Grp Hot
Grp Shield
Supplication
Rez
AoE Punt
Smite
Silence
Shatter
Snare
x2 Auras
Fist of Khaine/Judgement

That's another 18. While leaving 10ish abilities off your hotbar(not counting SnB and 2h/DW abilities). That's 41 hotkeys, for some of the simplest classes. Any tank will have more, IB/BG will have over 60. Sure, you don't "have" to have everything on a hotkey, but that is just limiting your gameplay if you have to click abilities. Why would you do that? The use of some form of sequencer is almost mandatory imo, unless ofc you're a 380+APM pro.
Hotkeys for stuff like armor pot/liniment is not necessary. On my IB currently without addon/ sequencer i got 29 hotkeys(that includes every skill for my spec/morals), with potions and assist macro 3xish keybindings. Sure it's super annoying but that's an issue with the class.

The absence of Nerfed Buttons only exposed the fact that IB is among the worst quality of life classes ever seen in a MMO, the solution shouldn't be a ''cheating'' addon but looking into these classes and how to improve their gameplay(in comparison i find BG far less annoying without Nerfed). A few more examples would be the other tank classes, Chosen/Kotbs are sleep- inducing easy(activate auras and press keys to not go AFK). SM/Borc still got Plan B and because of that very simple and do not require that many keybindings.

P.S. ''fairly simple'' class would be AoE WL(mara?), basically have to press 3-4 hotkeys 80% of the time.

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ufthakk
Posts: 198

Re: So Nerfed Buttons Is Not Removed Completely and What That Means...

Post#240 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 9:18 am

why this still going on? only boring repititon here.

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