The current WH is too powerful. About the Path of Confession.

[Gyurza83]

I always thought that you can only call a character op only if you have this character in the top gear and you really know how to play for him and against him. But apparently I was wrong.

[Miszczu5647]

viewtopic.php?f=95&t=45322

That could be, partially, response to heavy parry build.

[dadlyj]

Spoiler:

Except for 5 second parry through repel blasphemy, WEs have the exact same tools that you mentioned.

Regen/Defensive builds on almost all classes are very strong in solo play. For WE/WH, the problem is not the heal tactic itself but how it is used in sync with other things.

For WHs it's through flowing accusation proc bullet spam and for WEs it's through going full defensive while still doing a lot of corporeal damage.

If flowing accusation procs, it's a guaranteed heal between 300-560 per gcd which stacks with how many people got hit with bullet. It's fun to see WHs regen full hp using dragon gun on a blob. But what's truly strong is that it can proc on even one accusation executions making bullets spammable.

What class were you playing when facing the WH? Maybe we can discuss some tactics to best counter them.

You talk as if it doesn't make a difference. But in the first place, 100% parry 5secund itself is too much. The same is true of the 10% parry tactic.
In addition, Wh can learn "shroud of Magnus" at the same time, so it is free from four kinds of magic damage: magus.soc.shamun and gelot. How effective is it?
By comparison
Even if "witchelf" has the same 50% armor penetration and HP recovery from bullets or poison, it cannot learn "elixir of the cauldron" which has the same effect as "shroud of Magnus".
Of course, I think 100% resistance to magic is also an op, but I think 100% 5 second parry and 10% parry are wrong in the first place.
We already have two survival techniques.
There are too many 5 seconds, 100% parry and 10% parry.

In terms of realm balance, yes it doesnt make a difference. Both WE/WH have viable specs which can be hard to deal with for others in 1v1. You're right, WEs cannot have all the goodies and neither can WH. WH lose their incoming heal debuff. Also the bullet which heals them do not debuff outgoing healing unlike the WE making it harder to deal with healers or preventing their target from being healed by others.

Shroud of Magnus has counters:

1. Magus - Daemonic Infestation and Tzeentch Grasp cannot be disrupted

2. Shaman - Sticky Feetz will still slow

3. Sorc - Grip of Fear still roots

4. WH cannot use Sanctified Oil for 60 seconds to reapply opener or escape

You see everything has pros and cons. The problem with the WH spec which imo is strong and without counter is what I mentioned previously.

The reason I asked your class was to genuinely discuss how you can try to counter WHs. So do you want to discuss strategies or continue stating what's OP according to you?

So? how practical are the things you're talking about? "Shroud of Magus" is a constant buff. The ones you mentioned are counters?
Do you think it's the counter that gets knocked out unilaterally while the "Shroud of Magus" lasts? And what are you gonna do with the long-range snare, you think you can get away? Or do the magus lights you mentioned have the ability to release snare? Or do you just want me to run away? Don't talk as if it's a counteraction. Everything you mention is a way to try and escape, not a way to fight back.
Which means that wh is "unilateral".

[dadlyj]

Don't say counter with things that are low probability of escaping, it's blasphemy.
Counter is counterattack. Don't you know the meaning of the word?
You really think what you're talking about is a counter? Or do you think it's a means to escape?
What does WH snare or referee call a range attack? And what has increased speed of movement stealth?
You talk like it's nothing to have a magic imune for seven seconds, and if you say that next to a soc user or a magus user, you'll want to shoot you.
All the counters you're talking about are counterparts in wh's power.
What are the "next" you mean by counter, hunting wh or using it to escape with a low probability?
Tell me the truth.
Don't talk like it's all about telling some of the truth.
The most secretive lie in the world is to mix truth and lies.

[dadlyj]

Don't react to opposition users talking about what they feel is an "op" ability like it's nothing but it doesn't matter if it doesn't change, it doesn't matter if it disappears or changes because you know it's an op.

[sharpblader]

Tell me the truth.

The truth? The truth is that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have shared mine. You have shared yours.

I already agreed that WH build is strong, but for different reasons stated by you.

Also, the truth is that 1v1 isnt balanced in this game. Some classes and builds do way better. Best we can do is learn to live with it or come up with ways to fight it.

I never said its easy to counter the build. But it is possible:

1. WHs are not efficient at snaring in melee so if you kite them while side strafing correctly you can not be slowed

2. If you have absorb or high block/parry they cannot heal. Having high spirit resistance also helps to reduce their heal and dps

3. If they have Shroud of Magnus active, some abilities will help you increase gap despite 100% disrupt, the ones I mentioned earlier. (Not for running away with your back turned towards them)

4. WH trying to kite and maintain 30 feet distance? Increase it even more so that their trial by pain stops or use an interrupt ability. Sooner or later, if Flowing Accusation doesn't proc, they will have to come close

5. They have Repel Blasphemy or Confusing Movements active? Try to land a cc from behind or de-taunt and kite it out. Repel blasphemy is a blessing that can be dispelled if shattered from the sides

6. Bullet spamming usually has a higher AP cost, so if you have ap reduction use it

7. Sanctified Oil is harder to counter but if they use it they cannot use shroud. If timed right, they can be rooted while invisible and unable to land 2 out of 3 openers

8. Outside of all their escape and survival tools, WHs are very squishy


Again, its an unfavorable match up for some classes. A lot depends on gear as well. If you cannot survive their opener with sufficient hp left, its not going to matter.

Spoiler:

Perhaps...my point focusses on how to adapt to the situation at hand

And you doing good, but this an obvious bug, if it worries you or any other WH, it should be fixed. But I am not the one to report.

Im not sure if it is intended or not. I havent played WH for that long to say.

[kryss]

The hard, real truth that the OP is failing to grasp is that WE and WH are first and foremost 1 vs 1 classes, especially in ROR devs' vision. If u go toe to toe vs one, and they are not noobs, or make mistakes, or undergeared, odds are that you will lose. You can win, ofc, but you need skill, sometimes specific specs or gear: that is the price you have to pay to go against a duelist class by design. Don't want to do that? Then /rel, or group up (don't devs usually say that?).

Since WH (a lot more than WE) gets shafted in basically every other aspect of the game, I find it amusing that people call it out to be OP while he is doing his (only?) job: hunt stragglers, soloers, box runners, or people on the walls. WH has his niche, he is very good at it, end of story. Rock, paper, scissors. While grouped, he is a decent ST dps, but less than WE. Basically any other class is better than WH in everything else the game has to offer, and chances are that said class is great in 1 vs 1 as well. Create a solo sham and go hunt those WH baddies, or build up a regen chosen and just yawn at them till they get bored at hitting you or someone else adds the fight, but for the love of god stop crying

[dadlyj]

I'm sick of it, this isn't about magic immunes in the first place. While using the same tree, one side is saying that a bonus of 100%, 5 seconds of magic has too much.
The "Magic Mune has a counter." It's not about reducing speed, fainting or tying it up, it's not about magic emu, it's about wizards dealing with every close attack, don't make people who lack information misunderstand.
After magus used a three second fainting spell? Wh's magic imune is 7 seconds, so if magus and socc use root, what about dragon gun? There's no end to it, so to speak.
Eagle is
50% armor penetration
Six attacks at 30ft range in three seconds.
30ft range aoe knowback
10% parry tactic
100% parry 5 second attack
Recovery of 150% of the bullet damage.
Immune to magic damage for seven seconds.

All of this can be achieved through Path of Confession.
WE, on the other hand, use the same tree.
10% parry tactic
100% parry 5 second attack
Immune to magic damage for seven seconds.
It's about not being able to have one.

Please don't blur the issue with unnecessary writing.

[sharpblader]

I'm sick of it, this isn't about magic immunes in the first place. While using the same tree, one side is saying that a bonus of 100%, 5 seconds of magic has too much.
The "Magic Mune has a counter." It's not about reducing speed, fainting or tying it up, it's not about magic emu, it's about wizards dealing with every close attack, don't make people who lack information misunderstand.
After magus used a three second fainting spell? Wh's magic imune is 7 seconds, so if magus and socc use root, what about dragon gun? There's no end to it, so to speak.
Eagle is
50% armor penetration
Six attacks at 30ft range in three seconds.
30ft range aoe knowback
10% parry tactic
100% parry 5 second attack
Recovery of 150% of the bullet damage.
Immune to magic damage for seven seconds.

All of this can be achieved through Path of Confession.
WE, on the other hand, use the same tree.
10% parry tactic
100% parry 5 second attack
Immune to magic damage for seven seconds.
It's about not being able to have one.

Please don't blur the issue with unnecessary writing.

You're right the issue is blurred. There is no correlation between OP abilities in one tree and and how to counter them. /sarcasm

You want to rant instead of understanding what you say is not OP.

So ill leave you to it.

[Tabelrel]

To be honest i don't quite understand the point that is being made and this is from a WE not a WH. Its all about choices and compromises.

Yes they get a load of armour handling capabilities in one tree and the magic disrupt but have to use another tree for sanctified oil and knockdown. The WE does the same just spread into different trees as they are not mirrors and you need to utilise 2 trees for your key set of abilities whatever that choice is.

Magic disrupt, is that an issue? A WE/WH opens up on an AM or Shammie knocksdown, then what. This is risk/reward/fight/flight you have x seconds to kill them with disruption or kited, dotted to hell and slow death. I presume Shroud of Magus & Sanctified Oil are the same as WE equivalents i.e. they are both on the same GCD so you cannot use both and hence fight/flight.

As for the defence builds well thats a compromise again and not so much about the mastery trees than your choices of armour/jewellery/talis and again you get defence at the expense of strength and crit, so some melee targets who stand and fight are more rewarding than others like healers who are most probably not your primary target and will just lol you.