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BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#11 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:52 am

At least make the ctbc reduction apply to the whole group, that would be a start.

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Deadpoet
Posts: 313

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#12 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:56 am

At least make the ctbc reduction (with recalibrated values) apply to the whole group, that would be a start. Same with other stuff that currently only the dark protegé benefits from. SnB BG is indeed in a sorry state rn.

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#13 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:49 am

Sulorie wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:40 pm The crit reduction change was either a nerf, if you take the broken/bugged 45% flat reduction into account or a buff, if you look at the intended 45% percentage reduction, because many players seek to have low ctbc, where only absolute reduction matters.
Flat -15 ctbc is nice.

The armor buff on the other hand is a nerf. Not sure anyone would go up 13pts for just a crit reduction buff and a tiny on average 300 armor bonus.
The break even point for -15% flat vs -45% percentage would be 33% ctbc, the flat one is really only better vs dps that have no/little crit and just stacks str/int/bs+power, and not sure how common those are.

I think about 40-50% crit is normal BIS range, if you get debuffed by an additional 10-15%, add another 10% from the option to not run FS, then you could be sitting at 65-75% ctbc which makes FoF reduce by 33%.

so my guess is it's a nerf on both fronts.

Anyway, I don't play BG, I've got a lowbie one eventually for ranked to go 2H and would not pick FoF regardless :lol:
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

Sulorie
Posts: 7219

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#14 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:23 pm

BluIzLucky wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:49 am
Sulorie wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:40 pm The crit reduction change was either a nerf, if you take the broken/bugged 45% flat reduction into account or a buff, if you look at the intended 45% percentage reduction, because many players seek to have low ctbc, where only absolute reduction matters.
Flat -15 ctbc is nice.

The armor buff on the other hand is a nerf. Not sure anyone would go up 13pts for just a crit reduction buff and a tiny on average 300 armor bonus.
The break even point for -15% flat vs -45% percentage would be 33% ctbc, the flat one is really only better vs dps that have no/little crit and just stacks str/int/bs+power, and not sure how common those are.

I think about 40-50% crit is normal BIS range, if you get debuffed by an additional 10-15%, add another 10% from the option to not run FS, then you could be sitting at 65-75% ctbc which makes FoF reduce by 33%.

so my guess is it's a nerf on both fronts.

Anyway, I don't play BG, I've got a lowbie one eventually for ranked to go 2H and would not pick FoF regardless :lol:
It's not working like that. A ctbc reduction only reduces afaik your own ctbc before the chance to crit of an attacker is applied. When you got 10% ctbc and an attacker got 50% crit chance, you end with 55,5 ctbc instead of 60%, which is pretty bad.
The thing is, it was broken and reduced your ctbc to -35% to keep the numbers, and then attacker crit chance was applied.

It would work like you mentioned, if the crit reduction would be applied at the end of the formula.
Dying is no option.

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BluIzLucky
Posts: 691

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#15 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:08 pm

Sulorie wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:23 pm It's not working like that.

It would work like you mentioned, if the crit reduction would be applied at the end of the formula.
Yeah, I know it doesn't work like that, it's just how I guess it was meant to work and how they could make it work if they don't want to nerf it :)
SM - Arhalien +80 | AM - Shaheena +80
ZL - Wildera +70 | BG - Blackcrow +70

Mordd
Posts: 260

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#16 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:56 pm

Amdus wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:20 pm SnB BG is officially the most useless tank in the game,
I see the stuff from all destro tanks besides chosen and is such a load of crap. Play it 2H like its made to and be tougher than most tanks that are SNB.

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SmackdownNinja
Posts: 104

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#17 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:20 am

Mordd wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:56 pm
Amdus wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:20 pm SnB BG is officially the most useless tank in the game,
I see the stuff from all destro tanks besides chosen and is such a load of crap. Play it 2H like its made to and be tougher than most tanks that are SNB.
What does a SnB BG bring to a party/WB besides guard and HTL, which every other tank gets? It has no utility and nothing that makes people want to bring one. In other words it brings nothing. That is why they are not wanted for any content in the game.

As for your other point, going 2h means you give up block and HTL which makes you much more squishy then tanks with shields. And before you bring up stacking toughness, it's less useful after the combat formula changes. Also, you gotta sacrifice two tactic slots to make it work, thus messing up the 2h bg build. So regardless you still get melted due to no Block and HTL in RvR. Play the class before spewing nonsense next time.
Last edited by SmackdownNinja on Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Voldro BG-85
Nuketown BW-82

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Amdus
Posts: 115

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#18 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:34 am

Mordd wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:56 pm
Amdus wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:20 pm SnB BG is officially the most useless tank in the game,
I see the stuff from all destro tanks besides chosen and is such a load of crap. Play it 2H like its made to and be tougher than most tanks that are SNB.
Of course it was meant to be played 2handed, both in here and in the minis but here's the truth: BG is very mediocre despite what people tries to say in here, but it's almost impossible to reach a consensus on how to fix the class because some people fear the nerf possibility so they'd rather not discuss it and tryhard in its current state, which is honestly absolutely demoralizing. As Voldro said, once you have actually mastered the class (RR80+) you start to realize that you're forced to go 2handed but at the cost of being absolutely handicapped. It wasn't always like that, BG had a skill equivalent to wall of darting steel like the SM, but it got removed. All the tactics are messed up in the skill tree and you are really limited because of it, and the results you get aren't really good when comparing it with other classes that get almost the same tactics or even better at lower levels of the skill tree or have them by default.

I personally only used force of fury for pve stacking it with potions but now I won't even use it anymore, that's why is a "nerf" because it's a useless skill that has become even more useless. You're better off buying an above average armor unguent (+660 armor) and using the point into the other trees... So yeah... another nerf.

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Mordd
Posts: 260

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#19 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:41 am

SmackdownNinja wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:20 am
Mordd wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:56 pm
Amdus wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:20 pm SnB BG is officially the most useless tank in the game,
I see the stuff from all destro tanks besides chosen and is such a load of crap. Play it 2H like its made to and be tougher than most tanks that are SNB.
What does a SnB BG bring to a party/WB besides guard and HTL, which every other tank gets? It has no utility and nothing that makes people want to bring one. In other words it brings nothing. That is why they are not wanted for any content in the game.

As for your other point, going 2h means you give up block and HTL which makes you much more squishy then tanks with shields. And before you bring up stacking toughness, it's less useful after the combat formula changes. Also, you gotta sacrifice two tactic slots to make it work, thus messing up the 2h bg build. So regardless you still get melted due to no Block and HTL in RvR. Play the class before spewing nonsense next time.
what does an IB bring to a group?

Mordd
Posts: 260

Re: BG force "force of fury " has been buff not nerf

Post#20 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:42 am

Amdus wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:34 am
Mordd wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:56 pm
Amdus wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:20 pm SnB BG is officially the most useless tank in the game,
I see the stuff from all destro tanks besides chosen and is such a load of crap. Play it 2H like its made to and be tougher than most tanks that are SNB.
Of course it was meant to be played 2handed, both in here and in the minis but here's the truth: BG is very mediocre despite what people tries to say in here, but it's almost impossible to reach a consensus on how to fix the class because some people fear the nerf possibility so they'd rather not discuss it and tryhard in its current state, which is honestly absolutely demoralizing. As Voldro said, once you have actually mastered the class (RR80+) you start to realize that you're forced to go 2handed but at the cost of being absolutely handicapped. It wasn't always like that, BG had a skill equivalent to wall of darting steel like the SM, but it got removed. All the tactics are messed up in the skill tree and you are really limited because of it, and the results you get aren't really good when comparing it with other classes that get almost the same tactics or even better at lower levels of the skill tree or have them by default.

I personally only used force of fury for pve stacking it with potions but now I won't even use it anymore, that's why is a "nerf" because it's a useless skill that has become even more useless. You're better off buying an above average armor unguent (+660 armor) and using the point into the other trees... So yeah... another nerf.
Its the best 2H tank in game.

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