Is guard too powerful?

[Acidic]

Like others have mentioned, I think the issues that people are referring to happen in the high end of play: 6v6, organized warbands.

The safety net tanks and healers are able to put up in those situations is so massive that it requires a very elaborate and specific effort to take down. This is why much of high end play becomes a slog of waiting for this perfect storm to take place.

This isn't really a problem, unless you are like me and believe it is simply rather boring. There is little room for experimentation or individual skill.

Healers, in my opinion, are the main culprits, because:

- Their itemization allows them to all but ignore their primary statistic: willpower, giving them tons of room to stack survivability.

- Their healing by default greatly overshadows damage that DPS classes can put out - in my opinion the main cause for the current situation.

- Most (All?) healer classes do these things without AP ever being an issue.

- Skewed risk-reward balance, where healers are some of the most impactful classes in the game, while also having the highest range on their abilities and high survivability. Not to mention their extremely powerful group heal abilities are castable without line of sight, taking away further elements of positioning and risk.

Opinions on these matters may differ, but I see a clear issue.

This I would agree with.
Healers mechanism not noticeable affected by willpower
Healers output a bit too high
Aoe heals and m2 siphon too good specifically

This would be where I would start looking initially to reduce time to kill

[Elvicof]

Like others have mentioned, I think the issues that people are referring to happen in the high end of play: 6v6, organized warbands.

The safety net tanks and healers are able to put up in those situations is so massive that it requires a very elaborate and specific effort to take down. This is why much of high end play becomes a slog of waiting for this perfect storm to take place.

This isn't really a problem, unless you are like me and believe it is simply rather boring. There is little room for experimentation or individual skill.

Healers, in my opinion, are the main culprits, because:

- Their itemization allows them to all but ignore their primary statistic: willpower, giving them tons of room to stack survivability.

- Their healing by default greatly overshadows damage that DPS classes can put out - in my opinion the main cause for the current situation.

- Most (All?) healer classes do these things without AP ever being an issue.

- Skewed risk-reward balance, where healers are some of the most impactful classes in the game, while also having the highest range on their abilities and high survivability. Not to mention their extremely powerful group heal abilities are castable without line of sight, taking away further elements of positioning and risk.

Opinions on these matters may differ, but I see a clear issue.

This I would agree with.
Healers mechanism not noticeable affected by willpower
Healers output a bit too high
Aoe heals and m2 siphon too good specifically

This would be where I would start looking initially to reduce time to kill

So first off bombing was to effective, so they removed alot of these abilities to kill a larger amount without healers being able to react. There was alot of tears and crying, so the devs did the sweeping infront of the curling kids and nerfed. Then result is now you believe healing is to powerful, we could keep the nerf circle going and end up with a camp fire and guitar where we all sing in happiness.

The other solution is to stop caring so much for the average joe that only wants to gain stuff without any effort.

[Acidic]

Like others have mentioned, I think the issues that people are referring to happen in the high end of play: 6v6, organized warbands.

The safety net tanks and healers are able to put up in those situations is so massive that it requires a very elaborate and specific effort to take down. This is why much of high end play becomes a slog of waiting for this perfect storm to take place.

This isn't really a problem, unless you are like me and believe it is simply rather boring. There is little room for experimentation or individual skill.

Healers, in my opinion, are the main culprits, because:

- Their itemization allows them to all but ignore their primary statistic: willpower, giving them tons of room to stack survivability.

- Their healing by default greatly overshadows damage that DPS classes can put out - in my opinion the main cause for the current situation.

- Most (All?) healer classes do these things without AP ever being an issue.

- Skewed risk-reward balance, where healers are some of the most impactful classes in the game, while also having the highest range on their abilities and high survivability. Not to mention their extremely powerful group heal abilities are castable without line of sight, taking away further elements of positioning and risk.

Opinions on these matters may differ, but I see a clear issue.

This I would agree with.
Healers mechanism not noticeable affected by willpower
Healers output a bit too high
Aoe heals and m2 siphon too good specifically

This would be where I would start looking initially to reduce time to kill

So first off bombing was to effective, so they removed alot of these abilities to kill a larger amount without healers being able to react. There was alot of tears and crying, so the devs did the sweeping infront of the curling kids and nerfed. Then result is now you believe healing is to powerful, we could keep the nerf circle going and end up with a camp fire and guitar where we all sing in happiness.

The other solution is to stop caring so much for the average joe that only wants to gain stuff without any effort.

Although I agree that a lot has been nerfed and resulting in the current model,
I can not say that I think the old moral drop was a good design , I do think that they went too far.
I can see a lot of nerf bat was directed to damage output and not visably (to me at least) was given to keeping aoe heals in line with the damage after the manny nerfs.
I am not a fan of the nerf bat but believe that when in a small echo system like RoR abilities nerfing morals damage and not adjusting healing to keep things in balance will produce never ending fights, which we see
The other issue being how unessasary it is for healers to not need a main stat making them able to stack survivability , this on its own could be used to address some issues where healer can tank a 6 man on thier own with detaunt and gaurd. This is not a gaurd issue but a healer survivability issue

[Battlefield]

Yes it is, but it is easier to nerf a guard ability than remake healers...

[Bozzax]

Easier to lock this stupid thread.

OP

, like strike through for ranged dps or something like that.

Buff my class (tm)

(M2 bellow > M3 would be welcome tho)

[Tankbeardz]

This thread is just plain stupid. Guard is OP nerf tanks. Heals are OP nerf healers. You know what's coming next, right?

[Kaeldrick]

The other issue being how unessasary it is for healers to not need a main stat making them able to stack survivability , this on its own could be used to address some issues where healer can tank a 6 man on thier own with detaunt and gaurd. This is not a gaurd issue but a healer survivability issue

Yes! Here lies the true problem. Willpower is an almost useless stat right now. It's absolutely illogical for a class to skip on its main stat without any consequence on its primal efficiency => nerf base healing values and make willpower count more.
If a healer wants to spec tanky, he'll still be able to but with a cost, like for all other archetypes I must say.

Edit : by the way, I mainly play healers

[neupWAR]

...
where healer can tank a 6 man on thier own with detaunt and gaurd. This is not a gaurd issue but a healer survivability issue

Which is it in that scenario? The healer is solo or the healer is grouped with a tank and receiving all the benifits of being grouped?

What's the composition of the 6man because I know running in the "full sov Krub's wb" which by the way usually is just just 3 to 4 melee dps running around everything dies including healers that are guarded.

Also if your 6man in your example is 222 why aren't they using all their avaiable tools ie kd, kb, interrrupts, heal debuffs, assisting, snaring ect to kill the healer that is on its "own" but somehow also guared?

[Battlefield]

The other issue being how unessasary it is for healers to not need a main stat making them able to stack survivability , this on its own could be used to address some issues where healer can tank a 6 man on thier own with detaunt and gaurd. This is not a gaurd issue but a healer survivability issue

Yes! Here lies the true problem. Willpower is an almost useless stat right now. It's absolutely illogical for a class to skip on its main stat without any consequence on its primal efficiency => nerf base healing values and make willpower count more.
If a healer wants to spec tanky, he'll still be able to but with a cost, like for all other archetypes I must say.

Edit : by the way, I mainly play healers

+1 healers using armor talismans or thoughness and have very strong healing effect even with 600-700+ willpower because no mitigation

[snackeyboy]

Guard does have weaknesses though. The most major one is punting the guard away from the target they are guarding. Another thing that hurts guard is undefendable damage, if damage is undefendable the guard damage is also undefendable meaning the guard can't block or parry the guard damage.

Guard damage can be blocked/parried, and will register as damage coming from infront.

My 2H BG stacks up to 85% parry, just saying.