Bait....

[NSKaneda]

Here's the thing: getting on voice makes it much, much easier for party to coordinate movement, target calling, setting up rotations and so on - it also enables players to get to level of synergy one usually has to play for months together to achieve without comms. It's how big guilds run and it's been so ever since first weeks of live.

However you don't need to be on your A game with comms to enjoy an evening of scenarios. When soloing gets tough find a team on /5 - there's usually a lot of people doing same tier scenarios as you at the very moment. There's no strings attached - just get heals, dps and tanks, make /assist (that's all you need to type in) macro, drag it to your skillbar and keybind it.

Guard. Heal. Debuff. Dps.
Together.

On the same target. Trust me - focus can do wonders. And hey, maybe you'll like the guys you're playing with and next time it'll be much smoother when you play together because at the end of that evening of doing scs you'll start to get in sync. You'll know what the others are going to do before they do it because you've seen it so many times. It's not OP. It's what Warhammer Online really is all about - I've yet to see other MMO where grouping up comes as naturaly as in this game.

Premade is not tryhard elite club - it's a party of people playing together to make things easier. Comms optional

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However if you truly despise the concept of premade there's always PUG solo que option.

[Sulorie]

You really can't see the hypocrisy in your post?

"...neither you nor myself define how people should play."

And then you proceed to say that people should be on voice-comms and whatnot, or else lose.

You misinterpreting the quote. It doesn't say, that you have to be on voicecom. You will just more likely win.

On live there were not even pug SC unlike here, how much more do you want? You get matched with random people, it doesn't matter whether the enemy has a premade, your own team composition is a much bigger factor. Even pug vs pug you can be camped at spawn, if their setup is better.
Forcing balanced setup on both sides increases queue times by a lot and nobody wants it, it was tried multiple times in the past.
How to make sure your team has a proper setup? Group up.

Once again, you make this choice by queuing other SC than /pug, by doing so, you accept the outcome.
It's the solo players, I queue solo a lot, who selfishly play DPS classes, despite having a shortage on tanks and healers. Then in a SC with 0 healers in group, they ask for one healer to swap.
Or you have it different with 4 tanks in one group and none in other and nobody tries to fix groups before the SC starts. You lose because of this, not premades.
To assist someone, you need no voicecom.

And for those who don't want to talk, in most groups you are not even forced to do so, listening is requested.

Stop blaming others for your self-made misery.

[ufthakk]

I just wanna make sure everybody understands that all that things u can do do up your game:
Newer players and ppl in mediocre gear may have had a bad time this we event sc(eternal citadel).
While others ppl, me included had good fun.
And all the other stuff like discord assisting etc, can't help with that.
It's an mmo RPG after all but you should be able to understand the impression they get.

[Przepraszam]

There is zero reason to allow hand-picked groups to reap Renown by rolling over disorganize PUGs. And yes, everybody knows that's why people make pre-mades for scenarios.

"But I want to play with my friends."
Pre-mades being matched against other pre-mades doesn't stop this.

"You can make a pre-made."
Not interested. Neither stomping nor being stomped is fun. Also, most people want to just click a button and play, not go through a drafting process.

"It's war! War isn't fair!"
No, it's a game, and games are expected to be fair. If you want to be in a real war, go enlist.

"There's a pug scenario."
Yes, one. Which most likely is not the one you need for quests, or relic hunting, or finishing the Keeper's Set, or whatever else, not to mention that queueing for a single scenario significantly increases wait times, as well as just being boring to do the same one repeatedly.

In addition, it's blatantly unfair that a PUG group most likely gets trivial, if not zero, rewards from being put in a mathematically impossible situation, while the pre-made easy-mode team gets full rewards and then some.

Ultimately, letting pre-mades match against pugs is extremely unhealthy for the game; most people will quit instead of jumping through hoops to have the possibility of a fun scenario experience. The server is hemorrhaging players and fixing the unfair matchmaking would go a long way towards staunching that. In fact, people might actually come back if they heard they would no longer be constantly put into impossible situations.

What this man said + why group ranked was so "popular"??? hmmm let me see, very hard question here....:/

[Husti]

You really can't see the hypocrisy in your post?

"...neither you nor myself define how people should play."

And then you proceed to say that people should be on voice-comms and whatnot, or else lose.

You misinterpreting the quote. It doesn't say, that you have to be on voicecom. You will just more likely win.

On live there were not even pug SC unlike here, how much more do you want? You get matched with random people, it doesn't matter whether the enemy has a premade, your own team composition is a much bigger factor. Even pug vs pug you can be camped at spawn, if their setup is better.
Forcing balanced setup on both sides increases queue times by a lot and nobody wants it, it was tried multiple times in the past.
How to make sure your team has a proper setup? Group up.

Once again, you make this choice by queuing other SC than /pug, by doing so, you accept the outcome.
It's the solo players, I queue solo a lot, who selfishly play DPS classes, despite having a shortage on tanks and healers. Then in a SC with 0 healers in group, they ask for one healer to swap.
Or you have it different with 4 tanks in one group and none in other and nobody tries to fix groups before the SC starts. You lose because of this, not premades.
To assist someone, you need no voicecom.

And for those who don't want to talk, in most groups you are not even forced to do so, listening is requested.

Stop blaming others for your self-made misery.

It's not blaming others for a self-made misery. It's the system that embraces group play over fun and casual play too much.

Most people don't even know that there is a .pug scenario that they can queue to evade premades. Beside that there is only one pug SC that does not allow you to finish the live events. Again, it is the system that does that and puts random pickup play in such a bad spot.

Random play works perfectly fine in t1 and t3 where there are a lot less premades. Why shouldn't that work in t4?

- First thing they should do is to show the pug SC for groups as well but when they queue they should get a yellow message "This is currently the solo pickup scenario. You can't queue as a group. You can only queue solo and won't face premade groups in there.". And for the other SCs print "This is a free for all scenario. You can queue solo and as group. You are very likly to face premade groups in there." Something like that. Then people will at least notice how the .pug is working. Most don't know that.

- Second, there should be more pug SCs and pug SCs to finish the live event. Is it possible to have a certain scenario for pug AND free for all at the same time? That would be best. Then people can choose.

People forming "stomp groups" to do the event scenarios is very unhealthy for the game. Sure you can form a group as well but with a random group you build you still wont have a chance vs these stomp groups that usually are groups of very well players in top gears that want to get the reward and even puts up these groups vs randoms. It's the system that allows that and it is these people that take advantage of it. By just forming a 2/2/2 group you wont be automatically competitive against them. You won't. You need a lot more to kill such stomp groups.

In the end you need have to very well groups with very good players to play these event scenarios. It's very toxic for new and casual players who don't have the skill, don't have the gear and don't have the friends or guild to do that. They just gonna stop playing or stop queuing. Is that what you want? I don't want that. Pugs with random players that contain good an bad players, good and bad geared players are far more healthy for the overall fun.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Just because it was that way on live is no argument at all. The mythic devs were not the all-known-gods of MMORPGS. Do it better. I have given some ideas how to improve the system and fun for most of the players - not only a few stomp groups.

[CyunUnderis]

In the end you need have to very well groups with very good players to play these event scenarios. It's very toxic for new and casual players who don't have the skill, don't have the gear and don't have the friends or guild to do that. They just gonna stop playing or stop queuing. Is that what you want? I don't want that. Pugs with random players that contain good an bad players, good and bad geared players are far more healthy for the overall fun.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

I think I read this so many times.

PUGs do not want to group. But they have the tools to do so (/5, /1, /g). When they tag alone in SC, they can find others players in the same situation as them. So they can make party with them. In each SC, a PUG can recognize another good PUG (if he is not himself a bad PUG), and tag with him the next SC. After the SC, the good PUG can add the other good PUG as a friend, like that, each time they are logged in together, they can play together, between good PUGs. And SCs after SCs, you can make a whole party of good PUGs. This system is well crafted.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Oh, being a good PUG (well geared and skilled) playing with bad PUGs, this is not my definition of fun and healthy. Matter of taste I guess.

[Grock]

Is it always the same clown posting these threads?

Its literally a copy-paste of the reddit post from 11 days ago lmao

The previous forum thread was also a copy-paste of another reddit post by that guy.

[Husti]

In the end you need have to very well groups with very good players to play these event scenarios. It's very toxic for new and casual players who don't have the skill, don't have the gear and don't have the friends or guild to do that. They just gonna stop playing or stop queuing. Is that what you want? I don't want that. Pugs with random players that contain good an bad players, good and bad geared players are far more healthy for the overall fun.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

I think I read this so many times.

PUGs do not want to group. But they have the tools to do so (/5, /1, /g). When they tag alone in SC, they can find others players in the same situation as them. So they can make party with them. In each SC, a PUG can recognize another good PUG (if he is not himself a bad PUG), and tag with him the next SC. After the SC, the good PUG can add the other good PUG as a friend, like that, each time they are logged in together, they can play together, between good PUGs. And SCs after SCs, you can make a whole party of good PUGs. This system is well crafted.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Oh, being a good PUG (well geared and skilled) playing with bad PUGs, this is not my definition of fun and healthy. Matter of taste I guess.

Yeah, you can recognize better players and try to group up with them but what about the casuals that are not recognized as good player because they aren't good yet? They are left behind and with pulling the good players into groups they most likely end up with even worse groups. You think that is fun for them? You think they wanna be slaugthered the whole day? You think they gonna keep playing?

Again, is that really so hard to understand? The current scenario environment with lvl 40 is very toxic for new players. No argument will change that because when you are actually playing the game you will notice that very quickly.

Stop focusing on that experienced old players that only want easy wins. Start focusing more on casual play to keep the server pop up. It is waaay harder to get people back once they are gone. Hope we don't miss that point and do something to keep them playing.

I think putting in yellow messages when you queue up scenarios that tell you whether it is a random pick up or not and adding the event SC as pug only beside a free to all version as well would be a great step in the right direction.

[Everdin]

"People forming "stomp groups" to do the event scenarios is very unhealthy for the game."

What about people playing in guilds, and do not want 15 people que solo but form groups to play together. Thats what guilds are for, thats what "Multiplayer" stands for...

If the pug stomping would be such a big issue, more people would join pug scenario (yes there is already one), and this discussion would only be about the number of pug scenarios or event sc!

Conclusion:
Is there any need for discussions about more choose for pug scenario? - yes
Is there any need for discussions about event sc in both, premade and pug? - yes, maybe
Should we bann premades from scenario? - No, what did you guys smoke?

[Husti]

Conclusion:
Is there any need for discussions about more choose for pug scenario? - yes
Is there any need for discussions about event sc in both, premade and pug? - yes, maybe
Should we bann premades from scenario? - No, what did you guys smoke?

Yes, that would be a good compromise. Having the event sc as pug also would be a great improvement. Also telling people more directly which is pug and which not and what does that mean (with yellow system messages when you queue up).